Optional hyphen

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greenmorpher
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Post by greenmorpher » 2007-08-07 14:37:43

Hiya Black Clad Leaping About Person

The thought isn't original but I can't remember which program (back in the REAL Mac OS :( ) had it. It allowed you to enter a word either by typing it in or copying from a selection, then you broke the word with tilde marks where you wanted it to break, one tilde for the most preferred break point, two tildes in a less preferred break point, three tildes in the least preferred break point(s). I wonder whether it was PageMaker which offers three modes of hyphenation -- by dictionary, by dictionary plus algorithm, by algorithm.

It requires, of course, that the program gives access to the hyphenation dictionary. I presume the hyphenation dictionary in NWE/Pro is an OS tool. I wonder whether Martin would care to comment on the possibility of movement in this direction.

Cheers, Geoff

Geoffrey Heard, Business Writer & Publisher

"Type & Layout: Are you communicating or just making pretty shapes" -- Revealed! The secrets of how you can use type and layout to turbocharge your messages in print. See the book at http://www.worsleypress.com

dshan
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Post by dshan » 2007-08-07 16:54:16

Last time this topic was raised even Nisus were stumped. Hyphenation is apparently handled internally by the Mac OS X text engine and is not (currently at least) modifiable by users. Maybe in 10.5?

ninjagame
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Post by ninjagame » 2007-08-17 11:19:04

Hi greenmorpher, thx for the little tutorial on the hyphenation dictionary. Such a feature would surely help.
BTW 1: I've read your suggestions in the "The future of NWP" thread, and I can only second them.
BTW 2: Although the first part of my alias suggests "black clad leaping about" the second part is derived from the japanese word "kame" which means "turtle" or "tortoise" in English. (In the combination the "k" becomes a "g".) Ring a bell :wink: ?

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greenmorpher
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Post by greenmorpher » 2007-08-17 13:42:16

ninjagame wrote:BTW 2: Although the first part of my alias suggests "black clad leaping about" the second part is derived from the japanese word "kame" which means "turtle" or "tortoise" in English. (In the combination the "k" becomes a "g".) Ring a bell :wink: ?
AHA! Very clever.

Cheers, Geoff

Geoffrey Heard, Business Writer & Publisher

"Type & Layout: Are you communicating or just making pretty shapes" -- Revealed! The secrets of how you can use type and layout to turbocharge your messages in print. See the book at http://www.worsleypress.com

Windsor
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Re: Optional hyphen

Post by Windsor » 2009-02-11 14:44:37

So far, I have noticed that there are, to my knowledge, two (2) apps. that can handle and execute the soft-hyphen perfectly:

1. QuarkXpress (all versions, OS 9 and earlier and OS X and above)

2. NeoOffice which is the better version of OpenOffice (which are free to download).

My dire need as it is all of yours, to have Nisus Writer Pro to have this feature. Since these two programs are capable of soft-hyphen, then it is possible to have it in Nisus, too!!!

Windsor

shades
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Re: Optional hyphen

Post by shades » 2009-02-11 16:05:56

Also, Ragtime has soft-hyphen.
MBP 2.4 GHz, OS X 10.5.6
NWP 1.2, Mellel 2.6, iWork 08

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Elbrecht
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Re: Optional hyphen

Post by Elbrecht » 2009-02-11 16:16:03

Nisus Writer too!

See other Topic: "All about SHYness - Soft Hyphenation - [SHY] U+00AD" or Search "SHY" for it...

HE
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ninjagame
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Re: Optional hyphen

Post by ninjagame » 2009-02-12 02:03:37

Elbrecht wrote:Nisus Writer too!

See other Topic: "All about SHYness - Soft Hyphenation - [SHY] U+00AD" or Search "SHY" for it...

HE
To be exact: Martin wrote a macro inserting a soft hyphen; see http://nisus.com/forum/viewtopic.php?f= ... SHY#p14065
Only catch is, it works only with OS 10.5.x.
Although I've seen it working perfectly and will be using it as soon as I get to using 10.5, it still is a workaround, not a feature.

ninjgame
Last edited by ninjagame on 2009-02-12 13:19:27, edited 1 time in total.

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Elbrecht
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Re: Optional hyphen

Post by Elbrecht » 2009-02-12 02:18:24

No Macro needed -

just customize your keyboard and you are done with it. Works like asked for. See the SHY thread up again for more...

HE
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ninjagame
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Re: Optional hyphen

Post by ninjagame » 2009-02-12 13:51:14

Elbrecht wrote:No Macro needed -

just customize your keyboard and you are done with it. Works like asked for. See the SHY thread up again for more...

HE
I really don't be rude or insistent but - to quote former German Secretary of State Joseph "Joshka" Fischer: "I'm not convinced!" A customized keyboard is just a different approach at a workaround.
Make no mistake: As a user, I'm happy with the macro Martin wrote (and a little envious because I still can't find time to learn writing macros myself); as a customer, I can perfectly live with it.
On the other hand, you don't have to customize your keyboard (or insert a macro, for that matter) in order e.g., to be able to exit the application with Cmd-Q, to save a document with Cmd-S, to print with Cmd-P, etc. These are features NWP "has".
In the end, there are 2 practicable solutions addressing the problem. I can leave it at that.

ninjagame

Groucho
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Re: Optional hyphen

Post by Groucho » 2009-02-13 00:33:04

I wonder if you want soft hyphens or hyphenation patterns in languages other than English. Soft hyphen is a makeshift, a real patch, to be used as sparingly as possible. A hyphenation pattern file is the solution.
Unfortunately, NWP relies on Apple's internal hyphenation engine, which only supports English. I sent several feature requests to Apple about this, but I'm not confident there will be a change in the next OS. So the solution is up to Nisus. NWP could have its own hyphenation engine, and offer hyphenation pattern files to be bought separately. I think I remember this was the way with NW Classic.

Cheers, Henry.

ninjagame
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Re: Optional hyphen

Post by ninjagame » 2009-02-13 01:22:41

Henry,

Actually, I wouldn't really need a hyphenation pattern file for, say, German – although it would simplify things for me. What I'd need is a possibility to override cases of obviously nonsense hyphenation which Apple's internal hyphenation engine keeps producing now and then (I know that's not the fault of the engine itself as it is supporting only English) or to insert (additional, "soft") hyphens at points the hyphenation engine hasn't in its library.
But then, it's only version 1.2...

ninjagame

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Elbrecht
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Re: Optional hyphen

Post by Elbrecht » 2009-02-13 03:20:39

Well -

I was about to leave it at that - as ninjagame posted. But to get it straight once more again, my point is that there is nothing missing anymore since Leopard - believe me or not. Just customize your keyboard to get SHY to work for you with just ONE key stroke. Apple did it's work with the Leopard text engine, ALL the fonts include a SHY slot - just NO keyboard joins in to get it work. But to customize a keyboard with Ukelele for Leopard is as easily done as adding RAM or changing your battery pack with MacBooks - and Apple shows you how to, only that using Ukelele is so much more easy than editing keyboard XML files directly. So why keep mourning about SHY anymore? Months ago I asked to shut this SHY thread, but nobody seems to believe me - seems to realize that SHYness prevails already with the rest of us!

non multa!
HE

Go get it done: http://scripts.sil.org/cms/scripts/page ... id=ukelele
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Groucho
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Re: Optional hyphen

Post by Groucho » 2009-02-13 04:32:51

Glad to hear you can make do with it, Ninjagame. Not so for me. I deal with hundreds of (huge) documents. Nine in ten are in English, but there are a few in Italian and Spanish, and English hyphenation rules can bring about very funny outcomes when applied to these two languages. I think the hyphenation thing should be on top of the to-do list, or in its neighborhoods.
But then, as you point out, this is just version 1.2…

Cheers, Henry.

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greenmorpher
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Re: Optional hyphen

Post by greenmorpher » 2009-02-13 13:57:47

Hiya Elbrech

I just used the link and went and looked at Ukulele and saw a reason there to trust it.

It was written by NWP and long, long time NW user, John Brownie, of SIL in Papua New Guinea -- who continues to be a lively denizen of the Dartmouth list.

Get your act together, Ninj -- you can trust this solution; Brownie is ONE OF US!

Cheers, geoff

Geoffrey Heard,
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