Can't directly select text over/under a graphic

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stevenrowat
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Can't directly select text over/under a graphic

Post by stevenrowat »

Hi,
Maybe I'm doing something basic wrong, but I can't figure out how to select text when I have a basic 'shape' around it.

Example:
--I put a block of text on the page.
--I put a square 'shape' around it with no fill, so it's just a border.
--Now I want to edit the text, but I can't, because whenever I click on the text I want to edit, the shape is selected instead.

I can work-around very clumsily by starting the cursor above the graphic (earlier in the page) and using the keyboard to get down into the text, but this seems silly for regular work. I should be able to get to it directly with the mouse. Also, if I want to drag something, even selecting it this way, I can't. I'm reduced to actually moving the graphic off the page to be able to edit the text. This can't be right...?

--I've tried 'send to back' on the graphic, but this doesn't change the behaviour.
--I've looked in the manual under 'selection' for text; no help there.
--I looked at the shape selection section, which is very complex, but appears to deal with only the order of shapes; not with how to get text selected that's in among the shapes.

Any help appreciated.

Steven Rowat
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martin
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Re: Can't directly select text over/under a graphic

Post by martin »

Hi Steven- sending the square shape to the back should work. Once you've done that, clicking in the space occupied by both the floating square and text box should select the topmost item (instead of the one you sent to the back).

In experimenting with this, I did notice two things:
1. After you initially select your square shape and send it to the back, it will naturally remain selected. But so long as the shape remains selected, any clicks on it will interact with just that shape, even if it is no longer the topmost shape. So after initially sending something to the back, you may have to deselect the shape first (eg: by clicking in the document body text), before you can click/select the text box (which just became topmost).

2. It seems that saving and reopening the file may lose the back to front floating shape ordering. I'm not sure what conditions exactly reproduce this bug, but we'll take a look.

Please let me know if that helps, or if you continue to have troubles. Thanks!
stevenrowat
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Re: Can't directly select text over/under a graphic

Post by stevenrowat »

martin wrote:Hi Steven- sending the square shape to the back should work. Once you've done that, clicking in the space occupied by both the floating square and text box should select the topmost item (instead of the one you sent to the back).


Please let me know if that helps, or if you continue to have troubles. Thanks!
Thanks, but this doesn't work. I didn't say a 'text box', if you look at my original post; I said a 'text block'.

In other words, what I meant was regular flowing text on the page. I could have made this clearer, sorry.

I just tried what you suggested and I still cannot select the text even after sending the graphic to the back and de-selecting it.
What happens is that as soon as I click on the text (which is, visually, still inside the graphic), the graphic gets selected again.

Steven Rowat
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martin
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Re: Can't directly select text over/under a graphic

Post by martin »

Ah, my apologies Steven! I didn't notice you were talking about a regular block of text in the document body, not a floating text box. I should have read more carefully.

Well, that being the situation, there's no way to have the shape not respond to clicks first, even if the shape draws behind regular body text. Depending on your situation, and what you're doing with these squares, I might suggest that you use the paragraph borders/shading feature. That would allow you to add a border to a paragraph that won't interfere with regular text editing. Other possibilities: section watermarks, table cells, or floating text boxes.
stevenrowat
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Re: Can't directly select text over/under a graphic

Post by stevenrowat »

martin wrote:Ah, my apologies Steven! I didn't notice you were talking about a regular block of text in the document body, not a floating text box. I should have read more carefully.

Well, that being the situation, there's no way to have the shape not respond to clicks first, even if the shape draws behind regular body text. Depending on your situation, and what you're doing with these squares, I might suggest that you use the paragraph borders/shading feature. That would allow you to add a border to a paragraph that won't interfere with regular text editing. Other possibilities: section watermarks, table cells, or floating text boxes.
Martin, I feel I'm building up to a substantial (and possibly valid) complaint about an obvious feature that you do not yet have the capability of handling in Nisus. I hope I'm wrong.

What I'm attempting is a half-page of two-column text, with full capabilities for footnote/endnotes from the text, surrounded by a simple square box.
This sort of arrangement is common in scientific publishing; peer-reviewed papers often have one-column at the top of a new paper and two columns thereafter; sometimes the reverse. Often one of the forms has a box around it. Mine is a variant on this.

I've tried tables and boxes; they don't support endnotes and footnotes.
I"ve tried paragraph shading/edging boxes; the overall boxes don't extend across the columns (it's 2-column, remember).
I don't see how watermarking will help, since the 2-column text needs to be in the flow of the document; and besides, given your watermarking interface/dialogs it will be hellish to try to edit and position the watermark when the text is flowing and I'm editing the text to change its sizes and styles.

So it seems to me that you need a new capability in your interface: let me click on what I can see. I can see the text. I can see the box around the text. But you don't let me click on the text or edit it; the graphic reigns supreme.
I suggest you institute something like done in most graphics programs: allow me to lock individual graphics. This is how this problem is usually handled. Then when the graphic is locked I can edit what it used to obscure.

If you like, I can send a screen-shot of the setup; but it's really very simple: 2 columns of text in the middle of the page, surrounded by a box; text has endnotes and footnotes. 1 column before and after that box.

Steven Rowat
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martin
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Re: Can't directly select text over/under a graphic

Post by martin »

I think I understand what you're after Steven, but perhaps it's best if you posted (or sent/emailed) a screenshot of what you hope to achieve. That way I won't keep suggesting options that don't serve your needs very well.
stevenrowat
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Re: Can't directly select text over/under a graphic

Post by stevenrowat »

martin wrote:I think I understand what you're after Steven, but perhaps it's best if you posted (or sent/emailed) a screenshot of what you hope to achieve. That way I won't keep suggesting options that don't serve your needs very well.
OK, I'll try to upload here again (I failed on a previous issue, and will send by email to your 'Feedback' address if I can't upload here).

[Edit: when I tried to upload I saw an upload in progress, but then I see nothing here. Is the file (PNG) supposed to appear here? If so, this is not working].
exegete77
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Re: Can't directly select text over/under a graphic

Post by exegete77 »

It may have to be a .jpg file to be uploaded
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Re: Can't directly select text over/under a graphic

Post by martin »

Attaching a file/image to a forum post is a little involved, but it works like this:

1. Find the "Upload attachment" area just below the text entry box where one types a reply.
2. Click the "Choose File" button. OSX's open file dialog appears; select a file and click the dialog's "Choose" button.
3. Back on the forum reply page, click the "Add the file" button.
4. The "Upload in Progress" popup window appears.
5. Once the upload finishes, the popup window disappears and the reply page automatically updates/refreshes itself to have included the attachment.
6. You can click the "Submit" button to post your reply as normal.

Both JPEG and PNG graphics are accepted. I've attached the file Steven sent to us directly via the feedback reporter.
Attachments
NisusBoxSelectBugScreen.png
NisusBoxSelectBugScreen.png (154.47 KiB) Viewed 13400 times
exegete77
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Re: Can't directly select text over/under a graphic

Post by exegete77 »

Sorry for the confusion about formats acceptable to attach.
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Re: Can't directly select text over/under a graphic

Post by martin »

As to the matter of the square shape itself, I unfortunately don't have any great solutions. I was thinking a page border might work, but now that I see you have multiple sections per page, that feature won't do.

Probably the best suggestion I can offer at this time is to use four straight lines, which you can group to make a square. The grouped lines will behave as you want, where clicks in the middle (transparent) area will fall through to the text below.

Sorry for the hassle. I think it would be best if, as you describe, clicks in the middle of a transparent square shape fall through to the text below, and only visible portions of the shape respond to clicks. Perhaps some kind of shape locking feature is also desirable. I'll file some enhancement requests- thanks!
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Re: Can't directly select text over/under a graphic

Post by martin »

exegete77 wrote:Sorry for the confusion about formats acceptable to attach.
No problem- it was a good thing to check. One never knows...
stevenrowat
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Re: Can't directly select text over/under a graphic

Post by stevenrowat »

martin wrote:Attaching a file/image to a forum post is a little involved, but it works like this:

1. Find the "Upload attachment" area just below the text entry box where one types a reply.
2. Click the "Choose File" button. OSX's open file dialog appears; select a file and click the dialog's "Choose" button.
3. Back on the forum reply page, click the "Add the file" button.
4. The "Upload in Progress" popup window appears.
5. Once the upload finishes, the popup window disappears and the reply page automatically updates/refreshes itself to have included the attachment.
6. You can click the "Submit" button to post your reply as normal.

Both JPEG and PNG graphics are accepted. I've attached the file Steven sent to us directly via the feedback reporter.
Since I've failed at this twice, and thought I was already doing the above, I'm trying a test here following these instructions exactly (if I can):

1. clicking browse button
2. Chosing 'Test-upload.png'
3. It appears in your Filename dialog, with path.
4. clicking 'add the file' button.
5. Upload in progress flashed briefly, and is gone.
Here you state: " the reply page automatically updates/refreshes itself to have included the attachment." I see the name of the file now, where I didn't notice it before. This may be where I went wrong on previous attempts; because now there are two sets of preview and submit buttons; I was continuing to look at the top set. I had no idea a second set would appear further down the page.
6. Now, I can't tell from your instructions WHICH of the preview/submit buttons I should be pushing at this time. But since I've always used the top set, I'll try the bottom set this time:
7. Aha, that works.
8. Now I'll try the upper set of Preview/submit buttons instead. Hmm, this time that one works also. Puzzling. I'll press the submit button (top).
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Test-upload.png
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Re: Can't directly select text over/under a graphic

Post by martin »

Glad you got the image attachment/upload working. It's more complicated than it needs to be, but this is free forum software after all, so we can't complain too much!
stevenrowat
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Re: Can't directly select text over/under a graphic

Post by stevenrowat »

martin wrote: Probably the best suggestion I can offer at this time is to use four straight lines, which you can group to make a square. The grouped lines will behave as you want, where clicks in the middle (transparent) area will fall through to the text below.

... I think it would be best if, as you describe, clicks in the middle of a transparent square shape fall through to the text below, and only visible portions of the shape respond to clicks. Perhaps some kind of shape locking feature is also desirable. I'll file some enhancement requests- thanks!
Thanks; right, I'll build a box if necessary. That will make flow and content resizing more difficult though, and I look forward to you having locking and/or transparent shapes in future.

Steven Rowat
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