Opening and saving documents

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anat
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Opening and saving documents

Post by anat » 2006-07-18 05:04:05

When I double click on the icon of NWE the document automatically launches the file as untitled. However when I open it through the program I can check a box that canceles this option.
The same happens when I want to save a document of an older version of Nisus.
How do I make this a default so that double clicking on the file will automatically open it under the same name? and alternatively, if I open it through NWE how can I skip the box checking every time?
This has been very anoyig so far (I only have this progm for 2 days, the Nisus writer never gave me such problems).

Many thanks

cchapin
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Post by cchapin » 2006-07-18 06:18:40

I suspect you have been saving your files as Document Templates. In the Save As dialog, click the pop-up field next to File Format and choose "Rich Text Format (RTF) (Preferred)."

Part of the problem might be that Nisus Writer Express remembers the last format in which you saved a document. If you created a template early in the session, subsequently saved documents will also be saved as templates until you change that setting. If you quit and restart NWE, it should go back to its default, RTF, in saving new documents.

You will need to open each document that exhibits this problem and resave it as RTF. (You can identify them by the .DOT extension at the end of the filename -- if extensions are not hidden.) Once that's done, I think things should work smoothly.

I hope this helps.

--Craig

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Patrick J
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Post by Patrick J » 2006-07-18 13:36:58

cchapin wrote:Part of the problem might be that Nisus Writer Express remembers the last format in which you saved a document. If you created a template early in the session, subsequently saved documents will also be saved as templates until you change that setting.
This was also true of Nisus Writer Classic. When I saved a file as a template I'd forget to "reset" the Save As… dialogue to normal document.

Mark XM
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Post by Mark XM » 2006-07-18 20:06:02

Patrick J wrote:
cchapin wrote:Part of the problem might be that Nisus Writer Express remembers the last format in which you saved a document. If you created a template early in the session, subsequently saved documents will also be saved as templates until you change that setting.
This was also true of Nisus Writer Classic. When I saved a file as a template I'd forget to "reset" the Save As… dialogue to normal document.
I reckon we've all done this from time to time. :) I have thought of asking Nisus to change this behaviour.

But then there are other apps I can think of, where I've found that even saving something as a template doesn't work, and I've over-written it before I've discovered I have to go to <file:information> in the finder and tick the "Use as stationery" button! :?

Mark

anat
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Post by anat » 2006-07-18 23:02:26

Hi,

Thank you all, your advise has been helpfull and I think this will solve my problem.
However, does saving as RTF prevent me from using tables and pictures?

Anat

martin
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Post by martin » 2006-07-19 00:15:26

anat wrote:However, does saving as RTF prevent me from using tables and pictures?
Absolutely not, all features can be saved in RTF. In fact, RTF is our "native" file format, and thus is our best/richest/preferred format.

Mark XM
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Post by Mark XM » 2006-07-19 00:26:39

anat wrote:Hi,

Thank you all, your advise has been helpfull and I think this will solve my problem.
However, does saving as RTF prevent me from using tables and pictures?

Anat
No. It will save both. Tables save happily.
The only thing is with images ... if you save a document as RTF, the image is integrated in-line with the text; if you save it as RTFD, the image is saved separately as a linked file. The latter is probably preferable, however you need to bear in mind that few apps currently can read or write RTFD files.
This means that if you want to read your NWE document into another app for some purpose, for instance into InDesign CS so that you can use the advantages of page make-up, you need to save it as RTF as InDesign cannot read RTFD. If it is RTF, InDesign will also see the images and you can cut them and then repaste them in a separate image-box that you can flow text around. It's not ideal but it's possible.
If you are not going to share the document with other people/platforms. RTFD is probably preferable, but you need someone more geeky than me to explain fully!

Mark

Candace
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Post by Candace » 2006-07-19 16:25:53

More saving questions:
In Nisus Classic, I had preferences set so Nisus saved a version of the doc every several minutes. It appeared in the same file as the current doc, but with an *.
When I set the saving preferences in NWE, I don't see a way to make this happen. I have the program set at Overwrite every 5 minutes and save docs to Document Manager without telling me, but: 1) I've completely lost a document that I worked on for 2 hours - can't find it in Doc. Manager or anywhere else; and 2) when I just press command S, NWE is saving docs as "Autosaved" under titles it creates, rather than asking me how I want to save them.
Thanks. Candace

P.S. Why is NWE so much less intuitive than Classic? I used Classic a long time, sure, but I never had this kind of trouble, even at the beginning. I never spent hours of work time trying to figure out how to do simple stuff (and felt incompetent even after spending those hours). Is NWE based on Word-like conventions that people who didn't use Classic all know, and I don't, and that's why it all is seeming so hard? Is there a tutorial somewhere that could help people like me? Really, I am not a stupid person, I swear........

Mark XM
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Post by Mark XM » 2006-07-19 20:57:55

Candace wrote:More saving questions:
In Nisus Classic, I had preferences set so Nisus saved a version of the doc every several minutes. It appeared in the same file as the current doc, but with an *.
When I set the saving preferences in NWE, I don't see a way to make this happen. I have the program set at Overwrite every 5 minutes and save docs to Document Manager without telling me, but: 1) I've completely lost a document that I worked on for 2 hours - can't find it in Doc. Manager or anywhere else; and 2) when I just press command S, NWE is saving docs as "Autosaved" under titles it creates, rather than asking me how I want to save them.
Thanks. Candace

P.S. Why is NWE so much less intuitive than Classic? I used Classic a long time, sure, but I never had this kind of trouble, even at the beginning. I never spent hours of work time trying to figure out how to do simple stuff (and felt incompetent even after spending those hours). Is NWE based on Word-like conventions that people who didn't use Classic all know, and I don't, and that's why it all is seeming so hard? Is there a tutorial somewhere that could help people like me? Really, I am not a stupid person, I swear........
Hi Candace,

I always feel sorry reading your posts that you are apparently having so much trouble with NWE. To deal with your PS first, it seems to me that maybe the difference is that you are approaching NWE with preconceptions of how word-processors (should) work, because of your previous happy experience with Nisus Writer Classic; there's nothing wrong with that, it's fully understandable and I don't intend any criticism, it's just that when things don't work the way you are used to, it is more frustrating. Perhaps you approached Classic without any pre-conceptions.

I don't think NWE is based on Word-like conventions--thank god!--but it is not a port of Nisus Writer Classic either. It's a written-from-the-ground-up OS-X native Cocoa application, and OS-X is a very different operating system from Mac-OS 9, with its own conventions, terminology and ways of doing things, and this is why it's different.

Personally speaking, I find NWE very intuitive, but I don't have a strong background in Classic--I had it from an early version right through to version 6, but didn't use it that much--and although I mostly used Word on both Mac (OS-9) and Windows, I also used virtually every word processor there was for DOS, Windows and Mac(OS-9). Under OS-X, I currently have NWE, Mellel, Pages 1, Mariner Write, Papyrus Works and NeoOffice. I have to say, NWE is way, way, way my favourite word-processor and with by far the most intuitive interface of the lot. Try some of the others and you'll see what I mean.

As for your file management problems, I have the preferences set to Autosaving every 10 minutes, but only to a temporary back-up file, rather than overwriting the original, and I have de-selected "Keep new documents in Document Manager without asking me". I think it is that latter one which is causing your problem; if you turn it off, NWE will present you with a standard OS-X Save dialog every time you save a new file.

With saving temporary back-ups turned on, if NWE crashes, the next time you start it, it tells you that there is a recovered file in the Document Manager, and asks if you want to open that--it is the last autosaved state before the crash. When that happens, I open it and immediately do a "Save As", overwriting the original file that I was working on at the time of the crash, unless I know that I did a manual save after the last autosave, in which case I either ignore it or open and save it under a different name in the same location as the original, if I'm not absolutely sure.

I like to be in control ... I dislike applications that are continually taking decisions for you, like Word and Pages!

Mark

Candace
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Post by Candace » 2006-07-19 21:32:52

Mark XM wrote: I always feel sorry reading your posts that you are apparently having so much trouble with NWE. To deal with your PS first, it seems to me that maybe the difference is that you are approaching NWE with preconceptions of how word-processors (should) work, because of your previous happy experience with Nisus Writer Classic; there's nothing wrong with that, it's fully understandable and I don't intend any criticism, it's just that when things don't work the way you are used to, it is more frustrating. Perhaps you approached Classic without any pre-conceptions.
Mark
Hi Mark,

I always feel grateful reading your posts that you (and Craig, and Martin) are so kindly trying to help me get facile with NWE. It is true; I am like a person who had a long and happy marriage with her high school sweetheart. Now he is dead, and I have to study a manual (and ask strangers for help) to learn how to do what came so easily and naturally. The worst part, for me, is that reading the manual often doesn't help.
Your posts, however, do. I appreciate it.
I am having to do my final briefs in Word anyway, since there's no table of authorities or index feature in NWE, so I am wondering a little why I continue to flail about, trying to learn NWE, but then I remember that the same people that developed Classic developed this, and I press on, trusting that at some point it will all get easier.
I would just go back to my old iMac and 9.2, but the Web interface was so horribly slow and gritty...
Anyway, I believe you have explained my saving doc problem away. I'll try it later.
Hope it's nice in China right now.... thx. again. Cheers, Candace

Candace
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still having problems saving docs

Post by Candace » 2006-08-31 12:22:51

I have NWE preferences set to autosave every 5 minutes, and do not save into document manager without telling me. I just closed a document that had been on my screen for an hour. By accident, when the "save changes?" dialogue box came up, I said no. This should not have been a big deal, since there should have been a version already saved.....but when I look at the document now, it has reverted to the place I started in two hours ago.
Why didn't autosave every 5 minutes make a new document? And is there some place where my worked on document still exists (even if without some tiny change I made at the last minute?)
Thanks. Candace Hale

Candace
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Post by Candace » 2006-08-31 12:24:08

ARGH! Still have trouble saving docs. I have NWE preferences set to autosave every 5 minutes, and do not save into document manager without telling me. I just closed a document that had been on my screen for an hour. By accident, when the "save changes?" dialogue box came up, I said no. This should not have been a big deal, since there should have been a version already saved.....but when I look at the document now, it has reverted to the place I started in two hours ago.
Why didn't autosave every 5 minutes make a new document? And is there some place where my worked on document still exists (even if without some tiny change I made at the last minute?) or do I have to re-do the whole letter? Thank God it wasn't a brief....
Thanks. Candace Hale

dshan
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Post by dshan » 2006-08-31 14:29:15

Where did you tell it to autosave to? Underneath the "Autosave every <n> minutes" setting in Preferences->General is a drop-down selection that specifies where you want autosaved files written to, it can either be "Autosave overwrites existing files" or "Autosave only to temporary backup files".

I'm assuming you have the latter option (to temp BU file) set as otherwise your current document would be the last autosaved version not the version from hours before (and you wouldn't have been prompted to save the document when you closed down NWX) . This setting is not what you apparently want to do with autosave. As it clearly states in the NWX User Guide and the help file this option is to be used only if you want NWX to automatically recover from application crashes (not deliberate shutdowns where the operator gave the wrong response to the save question). Files autosaved to the hidden BU directory are deleted if you shutdown NWX normally, which is what you did in this case.

It sounds like you want to set the location of autosaved files to "overwrites existing files" option. Please refer to page 184 - Customizing & Automating->Setting Preferences->To Choose the Way in Which Files Save: - of the NWX User Guide for details on the various options available.

The bottom line with autosave is you should still use cmd-s, File->Save, Save As... etc. at regular intervals when you're working on a document, don't just leave it up to autosave to do it for you or results may not be what you expect. Opening a document and updating it, then leaving it without saving it yourself for hours on end is a recipe for disaster. I always save my work before quitting even though autosave is enabled, and I always save it myself as I'm working on it. Autosave is like a seatbelt in a car - it's not meant to replace the brakes.

Candace
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Post by Candace » 2006-10-05 18:50:06

Hi,
Assuming I have autsaving set to overwrite existing files, is there any way to have two versions of the document extant --- one, the document as of last autosave (in Nisus Classic, this doc had the same name, and an asterisk), the second being the doc I am currently working on. That would mean that when I delete a few paragraphs and regret it, if I act quickly, I can open the *'d document and go back to where I was.

It seems like such a simple feature that I keep thinking it must be my error that I can't find a way to replicate it.

Thanks. Candace

dshan
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Location: Sydney, Australia

Post by dshan » 2006-10-05 20:32:18

There is no automatic way to do this in NWX (autosave is not a versioning tool, it's there to prevent disasters in case of hangs, crashes or forgetting to save a doc you're working on), it's up to you to do a "Save as..." <new file name> at the appropriate points if you wish to keep several versions of a document. You can just tack a version number onto the end of the document's regular file name, or use whatever naming system you prefer.

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