Footnotes within Body Text

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Tacitus
Posts: 96
Joined: 2004-02-12 00:11:45
Location: UK

Footnotes within Body Text

Post by Tacitus » 2016-07-25 22:53:56

Some years back Kino, or possibly Phillip Spaelti produced a macro that would convert footnote text within the body of a document to 'proper' footnotes.

An example:

.... policy at the point where it becomes an officially endorsed course of action{Stephen V Ward, Planning and Urban Change (London: Paul Chapman, 1994). P3}. It is necessary to distinguish between the utopian ideas of planning....

Text between the {. . . } was converted to numbered footnote citations. This proved very useful in conjunction with Scrivener which doesn't handle footnotes very well.

Unfortunately over time and a couple of machines changes these macros have got lost.

Does anyone either have a copy of any of these macros or can tell me where I can find them? I think there was a special UK version for some reason.
History is a nightmare from which I am trying to escape.

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phspaelti
Posts: 952
Joined: 2007-02-07 00:58:12
Location: Japan

Re: Footnotes within Body Text

Post by phspaelti » 2016-07-26 01:10:38

There must have been many versions of this macro over the years. And of course I find it easier to write a new version instead of looking for the old one(s), which means that the versions keep increasing :roll:

Other versions may have had features that relied on the local set-up. (A version I just found seemed to have been written for Italian.), but not this one. Anyhow here a version that should meet your specifications.
One detail: the "Note Default Text" is hard-wired as '. ' ("period-space"). Open the macro and change it as necessary.
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Tacitus
Posts: 96
Joined: 2004-02-12 00:11:45
Location: UK

Re: Footnotes within Body Text

Post by Tacitus » 2016-07-26 09:32:53

Thanks for this. After posting on the forum I discovered a couple of similar macros in the Macro repository, but for some reason the text -> footnotes one only partially works. Your 'new' macro works fine and does exactly as it should so thank you very much.

Nonetheless there are still some oddities in Scrivener's compile process and how it interacts with Nisus. Scriv wasn't very good with footnotes when I used an earlier version some years back, hence my use of the macro. Still I thought it should have been ironed out by now.

BTW you're right about the numbers of this type of macro that has been created over the years. I can remember using one with Nisus 5.1.3 when I did my Masters.
History is a nightmare from which I am trying to escape.

Þorvarður
Posts: 256
Joined: 2012-12-19 05:02:52

Re: Footnotes within Body Text

Post by Þorvarður » 2016-08-01 08:48:51

Tacitus wrote:there are still some oddities in Scrivener's compile process and how it interacts with Nisus. Scriv wasn't very good with footnotes when I used an earlier version some years back, hence my use of the macro
Hello Tacitus,

If I understand you correctly, you seem to be inserting inline citations with Bookends into a Scrivener document, and then – after you have compiled and exported it as a Rich Text File document – you want to convert the inline citations to footnotes with a Nisus macro.

After reading your post from July 27 in the Bookends forum, I’m pretty sure that you are using a wrong Format in Bookends. Since an inline citation and a footnote look different, you need one Format for inline citations, and *another* for footnotes; Bookends needs to know, what kind of temporary items you want to convert.
A paper has either inline citations or footnotes/endnotes, not a mixture of both. Since final inline citations usually start and end with brackets, like this (John Doe, 48), the brackets must be removed if footnotes (or endnotes) are being used in a paper instead of inline citations. It’s the Bookends’ Format which takes care of this. You don’t need any Nisus macro for this.

I haven’t encountered problems with footnotes in Scrivener v2.8. that require a Nisus macro-fixing. The only scenario that I can think of where you might need a Nisus macro, is, if you first write a long paper with MANY inline citations in Scrivener and then later decide they should rather be footnotes.
If the document doesn’t have many citations, it’s very easy to convert them manually to “Inline Footnotes” in Scrivener. And since they are “Inline Footnotes”, they can just as easily be selected and toggled back to “inline citations”, all within Scrivener itself. Again, no need for a Nisus macro.

Here are three fictitious scenarios that show the interdependence of Bookends Format, Scrivener and Nisus:

1) You write a paper called “Escaping the nightmare of history” for the journal X. The journal wants you to use footnotes. Therefore you insert temporary footnotes with Bookends into Scrivener, after having chosen Scrivener as your word processor in Bookends preferences. After compiling and exporting, you open the document in Nisus and use the Scan-Document command. Now, in the upcoming scan dialog, you must make sure that you choose a Format for footnotes, NOT inline citations!

2) Three months later you write a paper called “How I successfully escaped the nightmare of history” for the journal Y. The journal wants you to use inline citations. Therefore you insert temporary inline citations into Scrivener. In the scan dialog you must now choose a Format for inline citations, NOT the Format you used earlier for footnotes!

3) Now journal X wants to publish the paper you wrote for journal Y, and they want footnotes. ONLY in this last scenario it makes sense to use a Nisus macro to convert the inline citations from the manuscript you sent to journal Y.

_________
Þorvarður

Tacitus
Posts: 96
Joined: 2004-02-12 00:11:45
Location: UK

Re: Footnotes within Body Text

Post by Tacitus » 2016-08-02 09:43:33

Hello Þorvarður. Thanks for the comprehensive reply.
If I understand you correctly, you seem to be inserting inline citations with Bookends into a Scrivener document, and then – after you have compiled and exported it as a Rich Text File document – you want to convert the inline citations to footnotes with a Nisus macro.
Yes that's correct. I'm pasting a formatted footnote within the body text and then using a macro to convert that footnote text to a correctly positioned footnote. I started doing this when using an early version of Scrivener which I found produced all sorts of problems with footnotes. Ultimately I decided that despite the advantages of Scriv as a drafting tool, the added faffing around wasn't really worth it. However since Scrivener is now a mature product, I decided to give it another go but dropped back to the above method in the interim.
After reading your post from July 27 in the Bookends forum, I’m pretty sure that you are using a wrong Format in Bookends.
Yes that was the problem - I couldn't persuade Bookends to produce a format with appropriate delimiters to match the macro. Thanks to the ever helpful Jon, I've overcome that problem and that method is now working.

However, Scrivener has moved on and we have 'Inspector' footnotes and inline ones. I've started using the Inspector style which is working for me although I might be asking the kind folks here for another macro to ease some small problems of formatting.

All in it looks good to go and I'm happy to be giving Scrivener another try. The reason for all my posts on the topic is that I didn't want to get too far along the line before any potential problems were sorted.

Thank you also for your 3 scenarios. I'll take a look at those and see how I get on - at present I'm using 'Inspector' style formatted footnotes which I paste in directly from BookEnds. Seems to be chugging along nicely, but I will take a look at your suggestions which may be even better. Scrivener, Nisus and Bookends looks a winning combination.

Thanks for the help.
History is a nightmare from which I am trying to escape.

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