Page numbers and Screen Splits

Everything related to our flagship word processor.
Post Reply
Vanceone
Posts: 168
Joined: 2013-05-03 07:06:31

Page numbers and Screen Splits

Post by Vanceone »

So I've noticed something odd, at least with my setup. I frequently have seen that page numbers in my footers read 0 when it's clearly more than page 0.

I looked closer. Turns out, what I'm seeing is that if I have a screen split, only one of my screens shows the page numbers correctly. all other screen splits have 0's for page numbers. Except, and this is odd, occasionally page numbers 1-9 are accurate. However, page 10 and on are zeros.

Also, if it's lowercase roman instead of standard arabic numbers those numbers also seem to show up as zeros.

If you close the split with the correct numbers, it immediately picks another split and has the correct numbers there, even if they were "0" before.

So something seems off. Maybe it's just me?

adryan
Posts: 417
Joined: 2014-02-08 12:57:03
Location: Australia

Re: Page numbers and Screen Splits

Post by adryan »

G'day, Vanceone et al

I didn't check everything you mentioned, but I also see zeros for page numbers beyond 9 in footers in the lower pane of a two-pane split.

Cheers,
Adrian
MacBook Pro (mid-2014)
macOS Mojave 10.14.6
Nisus Writer user since 1996

Þorvarður
Posts: 331
Joined: 2012-12-19 05:02:52

Re: Page numbers and Screen Splits

Post by Þorvarður »

Hello Vanceone and Adrian

Maybe a bug in v3.2?
I'm using version 3.1 on High Sierra, and all page numbers are correct, as far as I can see.

1.png
1.png (174.92 KiB) Viewed 4968 times

Vanceone
Posts: 168
Joined: 2013-05-03 07:06:31

Re: Page numbers and Screen Splits

Post by Vanceone »

Hmm. I didn't notice this until recently, so perhaps it's a new bug. I'm running 3.2.1 on Mojave if that helps.

User avatar
martin
Official Nisus Person
Posts: 4935
Joined: 2002-07-11 17:14:10
Location: San Diego, CA
Contact:

Re: Page numbers and Screen Splits

Post by martin »

This issue may only occur on specific older versions of macOS. I've not seen it on 10.15 Catalina (or later), but I believe it's been reported once before for Mojave.

Vance: would you be able to send me an example document that exhibits the bug? I'm not sure if we'll be able to workaround this issue, but it's helpful for us to have sample files. Thanks!

Vanceone
Posts: 168
Joined: 2013-05-03 07:06:31

Re: Page numbers and Screen Splits

Post by Vanceone »

So here's a screenshot of what I'm seeing. As you can see, page 14 shows the correct number in the top split but zero on the bottom. I've also seen behavior where the bottom split mirrors the top split's page number, regardless of what page the bottom split is showing. I've sent some documents to Martin as well.

I'm not sure, but maybe having more than one section in the document causes issues? Or having different page number formats for part of it--e.g., like lowercase roman for introductory and regular arabic numbers for main body?
Screen Shot 2021-02-01 at 1.46.03 PM.png
Screen Shot 2021-02-01 at 1.46.03 PM.png (282.64 KiB) Viewed 4886 times

adryan
Posts: 417
Joined: 2014-02-08 12:57:03
Location: Australia

Re: Page numbers and Screen Splits

Post by adryan »

G'day, Vanceone et al

The problem occurs even in a single-Section document (of 10 pages or more) in which all Footers have the same page numbering format. So nothing special. I always use the latest version of Nisus Writer Pro, by the way.

It is certainly one of the most intriguing bugs I've encountered (anywhere!).

Cheers,
Adrian
MacBook Pro (mid-2014)
macOS Mojave 10.14.6
Nisus Writer user since 1996

adryan
Posts: 417
Joined: 2014-02-08 12:57:03
Location: Australia

Re: Page numbers and Screen Splits

Post by adryan »

G’day, all

There’s more to this than meets the eye!

I tried putting other stuff in the Footer. Ordinary text and the current time carry through all pages properly in both panes of a split. However, the automatically generated Pages in Document number is displayed as zero in all pages of the lower pane.

The problem also occurs with Headers in split view. Strangely, though, on one occasion Pages in Document was displayed as the numeral one (not zero) in all Headers in the lower pane. However, I have not been able to reproduce this behavior.

Cheers,
Adrian
MacBook Pro (mid-2014)
macOS Mojave 10.14.6
Nisus Writer user since 1996

adryan
Posts: 417
Joined: 2014-02-08 12:57:03
Location: Australia

Re: Page numbers and Screen Splits

Post by adryan »

G'day, all

By way of trying to provide Martin with more clues as to what's going on here, I did some more experiments. My document is a Lorem ipsum document of 14 pages, consisting of a single Section and with all checkboxes in the Section and Header/Footer Palettes unticked. I'm just using a single Split, so there are only two panes.

I saw the ones again in all Headers in the lower pane. Usual story, I'm afraid: it happened when I least expected it and wasn't paying close attention to what I'd done. I can't reproduce it.

One thing that seems to be happening is that Header content in the lower pane is not refreshed to reflect alterations in the upper pane until one clicks in the lower pane. Ideally, the same content should be available simultaneously in all panes, albeit possibly with some scrolling required to see the content of interest.

And now, after selecting ordinary text in the Header for the first page in the upper pane and invoking the Pages in Document command, zeros appear in all the Headers in the lower pane.

Then I delete the Header content in the upper pane and now the number of pages in the document appears in every Header in the lower pane.

So there's a bit going on here.

To my mind, still the most curious thing is the Page Number appearing as zero (in the lower pane) for every page beyond the ninth. Of course, I have no idea what the underlying code is, but it's intriguing to speculate how such a situation could arise. I suspect there is some sort of type conflict, but it's interesting that zeros are displayed and not just empty strings. Just musing….

I hope some of this helps.

Cheers,
Adrian
MacBook Pro (mid-2014)
macOS Mojave 10.14.6
Nisus Writer user since 1996

User avatar
martin
Official Nisus Person
Posts: 4935
Joined: 2002-07-11 17:14:10
Location: San Diego, CA
Contact:

Re: Page numbers and Screen Splits

Post by martin »

This is likely to be an issue specific to 10.14 Mojave. Vance privately sent us some test documents that do not show the bug on Catalina and Big Sur.

One question: is anyone having trouble with incorrect page numbers in printouts or PDFs? That would be a more serious issue if it affects final output.

adryan
Posts: 417
Joined: 2014-02-08 12:57:03
Location: Australia

Re: Page numbers and Screen Splits

Post by adryan »

G'day, Martin et al

17-page single-Section document. No checkboxes ticked in Section or Header/Footer Palettes. Automatic Pages in Document in Header; automatic Page Number in Footer.

First, display on screen: Everything is OK in the top pane of a single split. In the bottom pane, all Headers contain the numeral zero, and Footers beyond Page 9 contain the numeral zero.

Next, PDF document: It depends on which is the "active" pane when you create the PDF document (via the Print dialog box). If it's the top pane, all Headers and Footers are correct in the PDF document. If it's the bottom pane, all Headers contain the numeral zero, and Footers beyond Page 9 contain the numeral zero.

So, the PDF document reflects the content of the pane that was "active" at the time of its creation.

Just for the record, I don't see myself going beyond Mojave for quite some time yet. From what I see on this Forum and on other non-Nisus forums, I don't think I'm alone in this.

Cheers,
Adrian
MacBook Pro (mid-2014)
macOS Mojave 10.14.6
Nisus Writer user since 1996

User avatar
martin
Official Nisus Person
Posts: 4935
Joined: 2002-07-11 17:14:10
Location: San Diego, CA
Contact:

Re: Page numbers and Screen Splits

Post by martin »

adryan wrote:
2021-02-04 13:16:40
So, the PDF document reflects the content of the pane that was "active" at the time of its creation.
Well that's not good. I hate to see this issue affect final output. Thanks for letting me know.
Just for the record, I don't see myself going beyond Mojave for quite some time yet. From what I see on this Forum and on other non-Nisus forums, I don't think I'm alone in this.
I can definitely understand using an older version of macOS for a variety of reasons. Especially given Catalina's reputation for instability, app incompatibility, and dropping all 32-bit software. Mojave was a better one.

That said, Mojave's popularity is sinking fast. Looking at our latest usage metrics (January 2021) only about 15% of our users are still on Mojave. Typically Apple users are pretty quick to upgrade their system, even if it's been reported to have issues. Big Sur has actually already overtaken Catalina in popularity.

Vanceone
Posts: 168
Joined: 2013-05-03 07:06:31

Re: Page numbers and Screen Splits

Post by Vanceone »

So I can confirm that whatever pane is active is the one that controls the output of the PDF.

That said, I sent a PDF to Martin that shows something fascinating: I have a three section document, with the first section (the first page) showing nothing, the second starting at 1, using lowercase roman. Page number in footer reads 0 for every page in that section. The third section restarts the page numbering at 1, with arabic numbers. 1-9 display fine, then it goes to 0 for the rest of the document. Sorry Martin, I think I described the document slightly differently in the notes I sent to you.

So clearly you can get crazy results when you mix sections.

That said, this bug is not a showstopper: just make sure all splits are closed before you print or create a PDF. But it is a fascinating one, to be sure. Especially since it apparently is a Mojave only one?

adryan
Posts: 417
Joined: 2014-02-08 12:57:03
Location: Australia

Re: Page numbers and Screen Splits

Post by adryan »

G'day, Vanceone et al

I think this is actually a fairly serious bug. I suspect one reason Martin is particularly concerned about bugs affecting output is that they can be expensive. Imagine printing a 100-page document, only to discover after the event that the page number is displayed as zero on 91 of the pages.

It is entirely possible to miss the fact that page numbers are not displayed properly in the bottom pane of a split. It depends on which pages, and on which parts of those pages, you are viewing in that pane.

Furthermore, it may not be easy to program some sort of split removal or cautionary dialog box 'twixt viewing and printing, in which case all but a few followers of this thread would assume that one can blithely print any document without first taking the precaution of making the top pane the active one or removing all splits.

Cheers,
Adrian
MacBook Pro (mid-2014)
macOS Mojave 10.14.6
Nisus Writer user since 1996

withoutFeathers
Posts: 126
Joined: 2013-03-19 16:22:50

Re: Page numbers and Screen Splits

Post by withoutFeathers »

martin wrote:
2021-02-01 10:28:42
This issue may only occur on specific older versions of macOS. I've not seen it on 10.15 Catalina (or later), but I believe it's been reported once before for Mojave.
That might have been me, except that I reported it with High Sierra (10.13.6k). It wasn't on the forum, I reported it privately to you, maybe six weeks ago.

And since my Mac is stuck at High Sierra, I'll be here for a while. So it would be nice it was fixed.

But of course as long as we can remember not to print with Splits, it shouldn't be a show-stopper.

wF

Post Reply