Numbered list indent - how to adjust?

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dspedersen
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Numbered list indent - how to adjust?

Post by dspedersen » 2010-01-04 23:21:18

Hi

Working on a scientific paper, I'd like to use the cross-reference features to keep track on figure numbering. However, inserting from List I get this annoying indent (hope it's the right word):

Figure 1. _____ A) Course of weight loss during develo....

As you can see, after "Figure 1...." (shown with underscore).

I have been trying to edit the list style, but it seems like I can't move the indent according to my needs:

Image

Any suggestions as how to edit that part?

Thanks in advance!
Dan

Msc, PhD student
University of Aarhus
Denmark

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mrennie
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Re: Numbered list indent - how to adjust?

Post by mrennie » 2010-01-05 03:02:17

Hi Dan,

Nisus Writer Pro automatically inserts a tab after an automatic number in a list. You can change the length of the space by setting a tab stop in Style Sheet view, or by changing the space setting in the Text field of the Lists panel (again, in Style Sheet view).

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dspedersen
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Re: Numbered list indent - how to adjust?

Post by dspedersen » 2010-01-05 05:23:51

Thanks, I got it to work with my tables list; however, though using the exact same procedure, I can't get to work for my figures list. I used the Lists panel approach. I have been looking around for the tab stop insertion, but can not find it anywhere - have I gone blind?
Dan

Msc, PhD student
University of Aarhus
Denmark

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mrennie
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Re: Numbered list indent - how to adjust?

Post by mrennie » 2010-01-05 10:28:42

When in Style Sheet view, select the style, then enable the ruler and add a tab stop by clicking on the ruler.

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Re: Numbered list indent - how to adjust?

Post by martin » 2010-01-05 14:18:04

mrennie's suggestion of adjusting the tab stop in the stylesheet will only work if the list style is applied via a paragraph style. For example, you might have a "Headings" list style applied to your "Heading 1" paragraph style. You could adjust the tab stops in the main document area, where the list style is applied, but that's manual formatting that overrides the style and won't take effect for new list paragraphs you create.

The best approach is to select the list style's level in the stylesheet and adjust the indents, using either the Lists palette or the blue "gumdrop" indent markers on the ruler. One thing to note: if the "Text" indent (represented on the ruler by the upwards pointing gumdrop) sits inside the area where the list item (eg: "1.2.3") goes then a default tab/spacing will be used. From the screenshot it looks like this is Dan's problem. The text indent is set to the same value as the list indent, forcing the paragraph text out to a default position after the list item.

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dspedersen
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Re: Numbered list indent - how to adjust?

Post by dspedersen » 2010-01-06 01:51:32

Thanks for the suggestions. Using the lower gumdrop I can adjust the indent; however, the left-margin drop follows the lower gumdrop, i.e. I can't return it to the left site. This is the result:

Image

And this is how the style sheet looks:

Image

Why can't I adjust the lowest blue drop left?
Dan

Msc, PhD student
University of Aarhus
Denmark

ptram
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Re: Numbered list indent - how to adjust?

Post by ptram » 2010-01-06 09:52:43

I'll add my request here, since it is in topic.

I often use cross-references to Headings. To do this, I apply a different "Heading" List style to each "Heading" Paragraph style.

The problem is that I often do not use numbered headings. I have hoped to do this using the "#" List style, by removing all elements in the building block on the bottom of the List palette, and setting the Text value to zero.

Alas, this recalls the default tab at the beginning of the heading; so, it is not possibile to have a heading perfectly aligned to the left margin:

_Heading 1
This is some ordinary body text.


I suggest the tab is included among the building blocks, and be freely esarable. Or, the default tab to be defeated with an option.

Paolo

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Re: Numbered list indent - how to adjust?

Post by greenmorpher » 2010-01-06 11:41:44

Dan sez
Why can't I adjust the lowest blue drop left?
Try it, Dan. The drop moves BOTH the first line and left indent markers in unison -- as such drops do in all well behaved text editors I know or have known.

Also try double clicking on the markers to get a dialog box which allows you to adjust these things by measurement.

Cheers, Geoff

Geoffrey Heard
Publisher, Editor, Business Writer
The Worsley Press

FREE Bonus book offer. Get "How to make great ads for (sm)all business" FREE when you buy "Type & Layout: Are you communicating or just making pretty shapes?" or "How to Start and Produce a Magazine or Newsletter". Amazon or http://www.worsleypress.com

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Re: Numbered list indent - how to adjust?

Post by martin » 2010-01-06 12:44:18

dspedersen wrote:Using the lower gumdrop I can adjust the indent; however, the left-margin drop follows the lower gumdrop
I should have been more clear. The lower gumdrop is actually two widgets/gumdrops. The lowest square gumdrop is the "locked indent marker" and will adjust both of the other indent markers in unison. The slightly higher upwards-pointing triangle will adjust just the "hanging indent". Try dragging the triangle instead of the square. Geoff's suggestion to double-click any indent marker for numerical adjustments may also be helpful here.

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Re: Numbered list indent - how to adjust?

Post by martin » 2010-01-06 12:50:14

ptram wrote:The problem is that I often do not use numbered headings. I have hoped to do this using the "#" List style, by removing all elements in the building block on the bottom of the List palette, and setting the Text value to zero.

Alas, this recalls the default tab at the beginning of the heading; so, it is not possibile to have a heading perfectly aligned to the left margin
You are correct Paolo, using this phantom list style strategy one cannot completely eliminate the default tab position at the start of the paragraph. However, you can get pretty close. Just set the list style's "Text" indent to something very small, say 0.01 inches.
I suggest the tab is included among the building blocks, and be freely esarable. Or, the default tab to be defeated with an option.
Certainly NWP has a need for counters/variables that do not include the tab character, but I think your problem could be better solved. Perhaps it would be best if the insert cross-reference dialog had an option to show (and thus target) any paragraph marked for inclusion in the TOC. What do you think?

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Re: Numbered list indent - how to adjust?

Post by ptram » 2010-01-06 17:15:16

martin wrote:... I think your problem could be better solved. Perhaps it would be best if the insert cross-reference dialog had an option to show (and thus target) any paragraph marked for inclusion in the TOC. What do you think?
Yes, yes and YES! This is another way of saying somehting that I've suggested some times in the past, and that would really be the easiest, cleanest way to do this thing. I'll prepare myself for version 1.5 :-)

Paolo

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Re: Numbered list indent - how to adjust?

Post by dspedersen » 2010-01-07 00:12:49

greenmorpher wrote:Dan sez
Why can't I adjust the lowest blue drop left?
Try it, Dan. The drop moves BOTH the first line and left indent markers in unison -- as such drops do in all well behaved text editors I know or have known.

Also try double clicking on the markers to get a dialog box which allows you to adjust these things by measurement.
Don't patronize me, please; this is exactly what I am doing :P

martin wrote:
dspedersen wrote:Using the lower gumdrop I can adjust the indent; however, the left-margin drop follows the lower gumdrop
I should have been more clear. The lower gumdrop is actually two widgets/gumdrops. The lowest square gumdrop is the "locked indent marker" and will adjust both of the other indent markers in unison. The slightly higher upwards-pointing triangle will adjust just the "hanging indent". Try dragging the triangle instead of the square. Geoff's suggestion to double-click any indent marker for numerical adjustments may also be helpful here.
That is what I have been doing, but the lower, squared gumdrop clings to the triangle-shaped one, no matter what I do. Even if I double-click on the triangle-shaped, get the dialog window, nothing happens if I change the 2.5 cm to, say, 0 cm in either of the indents. The gumdrops keep their positions. This is true even for my Tables list, which oddly enough works fine.
Dan

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University of Aarhus
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Re: Numbered list indent - how to adjust?

Post by greenmorpher » 2010-01-07 11:39:23

Dan sez
...the lower, squared gumdrop clings to the triangle-shaped one...
That's what it is SUPPOSED to do, Dan, and what it DOES in EVERY text processor I have used on the Mac over a period of a quarter of a century. You define your left indent with the lower triangle and first line indent/outdent with the upper triangle andthat defines the difference between the two, then you move the two as a unit with the square gumdrop if you wish to change the left indent but retain the relative position of the first line indent/outdent.

Regarding the measurements -- if you are entering zero in the dialog box that comes up from the gumdrops, you will come up against a problem. [bold]NWP is confused here, and it is something a number of us have raised and, Martin, it really DOES need to be fixed~!.[/bold]

The measurements you get in the ruler are different from the measurements in the lists palette. In left to right text, the dialog from the ruler gives measurements from the left edge of the paper, so if your left margin is, say, 2.5cm, then the minimum left indent is 2.5 cm, which actually equals 0 cm within the text block.

BOTH should give the measurements from the left margin, in my view, NOT paper edge, since the text block margin is is the primary guide for both text formatting and for reading in left to right script.

BUT -- the measurements given in the Lists palette are from the left margin ("Item" is first line indent/outdent; "Text" is left indent)
If you use the list feature within a table, it gets even more confused. Take the example shown in the attachment. Why are the figures so divorced from reality, Martin? This needs to be fixed too, and should give the measurements from the left margin of the column they are in.

Cheers, Geoff

Geoffrey Heard
Publisher, Editor, Business Writer
The Worsley Press

FREE Bonus book offer. Get "How to make great ads for (sm)all business" FREE when you buy "Type & Layout: Are you communicating or just making pretty shapes?" or "How to Start and Produce a Magazine or Newsletter". Amazon or http://www.worsleypress.com
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Re: Numbered list indent - how to adjust?

Post by martin » 2010-01-07 12:59:40

dspedersen wrote:the lower, squared gumdrop clings to the triangle-shaped one, no matter what I do.
This is expected. The square gumdrop itself indicates/measures nothing. It's merely an interface widget allowing one to adjust the "first line indent" and "left indent" in unison. It's the pointing-arrow gumdrops that actually demarcate where the indents are.
Even if I double-click on the triangle-shaped, get the dialog window, nothing happens if I change the 2.5 cm to, say, 0 cm in either of the indents. The gumdrops keep their positions. This is true even for my Tables list, which oddly enough works fine.
Geoff's comments about the measurement of these indents may apply here. The indents in that dialog are measured from the paper edge, not the margin. So if your margin is set to 2.5 cm, your indent must greater than 2.5 cm have any effect. Still assuming that your paper's left margin is set to 2.5 cm, try a "first line indent" of 2.5 cm and a "left indent" of 6 cm. That might be too much spacing for you, but should at least help in showing you the measurements at work.

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Re: Numbered list indent - how to adjust?

Post by dspedersen » 2010-01-08 00:39:34

greenmorpher wrote: That's what it is SUPPOSED to do, Dan, and what it DOES in EVERY text processor I have used on the Mac over a period of a quarter of a century
Ok, STOP it, will you. Do you think that I am stupid or what?! I really don't care how old you are, how many word processors you have used. If you are unable to help people out in a proper tone, then DON'T!

For what my problem concerns, I don't care if the lower squared gumdrop is supposed to follow the triangled one. This is the result:

Image

This is NOT what I want, I want it to look like this:

Image

This is what it looks like without moving any of the gumdrops:

Image

All I really want is to get rid of that indent.

So once again, in a proper tone, how do I do that?
Dan

Msc, PhD student
University of Aarhus
Denmark

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