adding arrows to image

[mycroft]

I am trying to add marking arrows to images in my document. I place the arrow but suddenly it disappears behind the image so it doesn't show. If it is in the middle of the image, it simply disappears; if at the edge, sometimes a tail of it will show behind the image, and it often still has the original squares marking the end. I assume the square also means it is selected, but I don't know if that is so?
I have tried to use the "move selected image to front," or the front image to back buttons, but nothing happens. If I can no longer see the arrows, how can I select them?
1. What am I doing to make the arrow go behind the image? I cannot seem to find a pattern. As a corollary, how can I keep the arrow where it is placed originally?
2. How do these front-to-back and back-to-front buttons work? They seem to have no effect.
3. Do these marking arrows need to be "grouped" with the image to retain their position? If so, how do I select them? Sometimes I think it is my trying to select them together with the image that causes the arrows to go behind the image. Thanks.

[martin]

Newly drawn/inserted arrows should be topmost (with respect to other floating shapes). However, I'm wondering if your image isn't an inline image? Inline images are treated as text content. So if you are trying to overlay arrows, then you should check to make sure that the "draw behind text" option is turned off for your arrow.

As a corollary, how can I keep the arrow where it is placed originally?

Floating shapes (including arrows) are anchored to some paragraph in your document. You can choose to have them placed relative to the anchoring paragraph, or to have a fixed location on the page where that anchoring paragraph resides. In either case, if your anchoring paragraph switches pages, so will your floating shape.

2. How do these front-to-back and back-to-front buttons work? They seem to have no effect.

As speculated above, perhaps the ordering commands have no effect because your image is inline? Please let me know if my hypothesis is incorrect; if that's the case, this would be most efficiently diagnosed by inspecting a sample document that you could send us.

3. Do these marking arrows need to be "grouped" with the image to retain their position?

Only if your image is a floating image, and you want to be absolutely sure the relative position between floating shapes/images is maintained. If you have a single floating group, then you have a single anchoring paragraph, and thus the group will always maintain cohesion.

[mycroft]

Thanks Martin,
I suspect you are right about inline vs. floating. I insert the image originally as a floating image, anchored to the paragraph, and add a caption. When I add the arrows, they too are floating on top of the image where they are supposed to be, and anchored to the same paragraph. It is in the manipulation of the image to size it, place it just where I want it on the page, maybe resize it to fit, adjust the text wrap, edit the caption, etc. that the arrows become hidden behind the image and an immediate Undo has no effect. What am I doing wrong to cause an originally floating image to become inline? Is it in the adding of padding? In future I will immediately group the arrows and image before any of this manipulation, but what is the actual trigger in the process that changes a floating image to an inline one? What is the visual clue to me that this change has happened, or how I can tell whether the image is floating or inline? With the arrows there, the anchor marker shows; I do not know whether the anchor is to the image or the hidden arrows. When the arrows are lost, the shape-wrap palette Placement pop-up does say it is inline, but it is grayed out so I cannot change it. How do I change it back? I need to master this process as my project is very image-heavy.

[martin]

I suspect you are right about inline vs. floating. I insert the image originally as a floating image, anchored to the paragraph, and add a caption. When I add the arrows, they too are floating on top of the image where they are supposed to be, and anchored to the same paragraph. It is in the manipulation of the image to size it, place it just where I want it on the page, maybe resize it to fit, adjust the text wrap, edit the caption, etc. that the arrows become hidden behind the image and an immediate Undo has no effect.

Hrm, from that description, I would say that my initial suspicion is actually incorrect. All of what you describe should not convert a previously floating image to be inline. A floating image won't become inline unless you change the placement to "inline with text" or turn off "wrap text around shape".

What is the visual clue to me that this change has happened, or how I can tell whether the image is floating or inline?

Any time you have a floating shape/image selected, you will see a line extending from the selected shape to the anchoring icon:

anchor.png (10.92 KiB) Viewed 5649 times

So to check if you have a floating image, just select the image and look for the anchor icon somewhere.

With the arrows there, the anchor marker shows; I do not know whether the anchor is to the image or the hidden arrows. When the arrows are lost, the shape-wrap palette Placement pop-up does say it is inline, but it is grayed out so I cannot change it.

When you say "the arrows are lost" it sounds like perhaps you simply don't have any floating shape selected (eg: you have a regular text selection / insertion point). In that situation the placement pop-up will be disabled as you say, because it doesn't apply.

The quickest and easiest way for us to diagnose any trouble you're having is to see the document you're actually working in. If a picture is worth a thousand words, an interactive document must be worth at least ten thousand. The best way to submit documents to us (and get help on them) is to use the menu Help > Send Feedback, though of course you're welcome to post samples here on the forum as well.

[mycroft]

Thanks again Martin,

A floating image won't become inline unless you change the placement to "inline with text" or turn off "wrap text around shape".

Changing the "Wrap" status may be the clue I need to watch. The text-wrap buttons don't seem to be active as well. I shall watch for what I do with Text Wrap to see whether that is the triggering mechanism in my case. I'll check the Placement pop-up to try to be sure I am selecting the image to remove the grayed-out options. The symptom does seem to be inline vs. floating, as the floating processes do seem turned off for the image when I am in trouble. I'll continue to experiment with this now that I understand it better. If I cannot seem to get control of this, i'll send you a sample.