Page break before as a style

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MichaelGli
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Page break before as a style

Post by MichaelGli » 2015-08-28 22:07:12

When page-break-before becomes a style attribute (can be added to a paragraph style) perhaps Nisus can the the first (as far as I know) to make the break contingent on the Style not already being at the start of a new page. This happens when the previous page finishes on the last line. Currently eg with Word you have to manually delete unnecessary the page break when it causes a double up. If you then make a text edit that makes the previous page one line longer you have to manually put it back in. Be nice to have a "Chapter Heading" style that always started at the top of the page following the previous text!

flafora
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Re: Page break before as a style

Post by flafora » 2015-10-01 12:05:13

I have been reading the Nisus Write Pro documentation trying to figure out how to associate a page break with a paragraph style. From your post I assume that this is not possible yet. Is this correct?

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martin
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Re: Page break before as a style

Post by martin » 2015-10-07 15:42:14

Thank you for this excellent suggestion Michael. It sounds like smart behavior to me, and I'll add it to our relevant feature request.
flafora wrote:I have been reading the Nisus Write Pro documentation trying to figure out how to associate a page break with a paragraph style. From your post I assume that this is not possible yet. Is this correct?
That's correct, currently Nisus Writer does not have this feature, sorry.

ninjagame
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Re: Page break before as a style

Post by ninjagame » 2015-10-08 02:19:27

Fantasizing a little bit more about this topic.
If there would be such a feature someday, it would be great if there could be some other feature attached to it.
Let's say I have a manuscript with several chapters. I don't want to create or "Save As" a new document for every new chapter but rather keep all the chapters in one document. Furthermore, I want new chapters to start on odd pages, which means that if a chapter would end on an odd page, there would have to be inserted an additional (blank) even page automatically.
Now I'm going to go euphoric.
Let's say my chapters don't have names but numbers (or numbers and names, for that matter, like "1 How Everything Began", "2 What Happened Next", etc.) Let's say further that I have defined a paragraph format specifically for "chapter numbers" which includes the "set page break before" feature. Would it be possible to add something that inserts the chapters automatically whenever I apply this specific format?
Now I'm going euphoric even more.
Let's say I have footers or headers accompanying every page of each chapter. Now, as long as I stay in chapter 1, the footer would read something like "chapter 1". When I move to chapter 2 (i.e. apply the "chapter numbers" format once more), the footer would move along with it, i.e., reading "chapter 2" and so on. (The charm of this would be that even if my chapters don't have numbers at all but "just" titles, the related footer would also change.)
Last edited by ninjagame on 2015-10-09 01:35:54, edited 1 time in total.

nicholaspeters
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Re: Page break before as a style

Post by nicholaspeters » 2015-10-08 15:05:28

I would also request that "insert page break before" option be available for things like headings. This feature is in Word 2016 and would be helpful in starting new sections on a new page.

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martin
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Re: Page break before as a style

Post by martin » 2015-10-09 16:10:27

ninjagame wrote:Fantasizing a little bit more about this topic.
Wonderful that such a topic can provide such euphoria :)
I want new chapters to start on odd pages, which means that if a chapter would end on an odd page
It sounds like that would be best accomplished if this hypothetical style-enforced page breaking could also set whether the break was for an odd/even page. That's a great idea, and I'll make sure we consider it.
Let's say my chapters don't have names but numbers (or numbers and names, for that matter, like "1 How Everything Began", "2 What Happened Next", etc.) Let's say further that I have defined a paragraph format specifically for "chapter numbers" which includes the "set page break before" feature. Would it be possible to add something that inserts the chapters automatically whenever I apply this specific format?
I'm not sure I understand this point. It sounds like you want the chapter's paragraph style to enforce the numbering? Is that right? If so you can already do that by applying a list style to your paragraph style. But perhaps I just misunderstand what you're saying.
Now, as long as I stay in chapter 1, the footer would read something like "chapter 1". When I move to chapter 2 (i.e. apply the "chapter numbers" format once more), the footer would move along with it, i.e., reading "chapter 2" and so on.
This is something that I think most people call a running head/header. We have this filed as a separate enhancement, and I'll be sure to add your vote there.

Thanks for your thoughts on this matter ninjagame!

ninjagame
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Re: Page break before as a style

Post by ninjagame » 2015-10-10 01:51:18

Wonderful that such a topic can provide such euphoria :)
Well, it beats blasting your brains with alcohol or hallucinogenics by a wide margin (And by "blasting your brains" I don't mean enjoying a glass of beer or wine now and then! :P).

martin,
It sounds like you want the chapter's paragraph style to enforce the numbering
I think that's what I wanted to say. Since I'm not sure that I understand you correctly, let me rephrase.
Let's say I'm writing a novel. The novel begins with chapter 1 (obviously). Now when I'd apply this hypothetical "chapter numbers" paragraph style for the first time, it would place a big, fat "1" smack in the middle of the upper half of the (first) chapter's first page.
(Currently, I have to trick Nisus into doing so by (1) inserting a "standard text" formatted paragraph at the top of the page with only one, empty line and only then (2) inserting a "chapter number" paragraph with boasts a space of whooping "240pt before". If I wouldn't do that, i.e., insert the "chapter number" formatted paragraph first, it would place the number at the top of the page regardless how much space I set "before". I think this behavior has already been discussed in this forum.)
Then, when I apply the "paragraph numbers" paragraph style for the second time, it gives me a big, fat "2" smack in the middle etc. etc. of the first odd page after the last page before that, and then a "3" and so on. As far I understand, applying a list style to such a paragraph style wouldn't work with "normal" chapters as I'm using them now (i.e., creating a new document for every new chapter) since the "list" obviously would always start with a "1" but in a setting in which I could enter all "chapter numbers" in one document, it would surely work.
When I could have what you call a "running head/header" (or footer; I suppose that, technically, this would be the same) running along with the chapter numbering that gets the automatic numbering from the chapter number, it would be just what I meant.

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martin
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Re: Page break before as a style

Post by martin » 2015-10-12 17:13:57

(Currently, I have to trick Nisus into doing so by (1) inserting a "standard text" formatted paragraph at the top of the page with only one, empty line and only then (2) inserting a "chapter number" paragraph with boasts a space of whooping "240pt before". If I wouldn't do that, i.e., insert the "chapter number" formatted paragraph first, it would place the number at the top of the page regardless how much space I set "before". I think this behavior has already been discussed in this forum.)
It sounds like you are working around the behavior where NWP always ignores a paragraph's "before" spacing if it is the first line on a page. That's a separate issue that has indeed been previously discussed on the forum. We know it's an unwanted behavior for some users.
applying a list style to such a paragraph style wouldn't work with "normal" chapters as I'm using them now (i.e., creating a new document for every new chapter) since the "list" obviously would always start with a "1" but in a setting in which I could enter all "chapter numbers" in one document, it would surely work.
Ah, so you keep all your chapters in separate documents. I had assumed that all your chapters were in the same file. Since all your chapters are in separate files, then it's true that there is no way to automatically number your chapter titles.

Any hypothetical feature that numbers things across documents probably falls under the scope of a master / binder / project document type of feature. I believe we have some ideas already filed on this, and I'll make sure we include yours. Thanks!

ninjagame
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Re: Page break before as a style

Post by ninjagame » 2015-10-13 02:15:06

It sounds like you are working around the behavior where NWP always ignores a paragraph's "before" spacing if it is the first line on a page.
That's correct.
Ah, so you keep all your chapters in separate documents. I had assumed that all your chapters were in the same file.
Sorry to have confused matters. Yes, that is what I do.
On the other hand, keeping all chapters in one file would be the thing to do if I want to publish something, say, via Amazon. (I'll have to read up how that works with Nisus when I get to that bridge.) In fact, that's the reason behind my interest in this "hypothetical feature" in the first place.
Any hypothetical feature that numbers things across documents probably falls under the scope of a master / binder / project document type of feature.
This would be great, too. Think about a situation like, your novel or thesis has 25 chapters in separate documents and you have to add something in chapter 3 that causes, say, 1 additional (odd) page. Or you have to insert another chapter. In both cases you'll have to go through each and every following chapter in order to adjust (chapter and) page numbering. So count me in in supporting this feature.

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