"Save As" bug?

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bassrun
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Joined: 2018-07-18 11:30:42

"Save As" bug?

Post by bassrun » 2018-07-18 11:32:15

I may be encountering a bug in Nisus Writer Pro. I'll modify an existing document, choose “Save As,” and assign a name to the modified document. But when I go back to the original document, it’s now been replaced by the modified document! Am I doing something wrong?? This certainly isn’t the way other Macintosh applications behave. If it is a bug, then has it been fixed in a software update?

I am using Nisus Writer Pro 2.1.8 on a MacBook Air (mid-2013) running OS 10.11.6.

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phspaelti
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Re: "Save As" bug?

Post by phspaelti » 2018-07-19 19:33:14

No, this is not a bug. If you want to create a new file from an existing one, keeping the original, I recommend getting in the habit of doing the "Save As" before you start editing.
It may be possible to use "Undo" to restore the original—if you don't have too many edits, and you haven't closed the file yet—but then your files will be reversed, with the changed one under the original name and the original under the new name.
Another option, depending on your back-up set-up might be to use "Revert to last Saved".

You say other mac apps don't do this, but I'm not sure you're right. Apple has basically abandoned the "Save As" command, in favor of "Duplicate". Nisus has "Duplicate" as well, so maybe we should get used to using that instead.
philip

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ScottinPollock
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Re: "Save As" bug?

Post by ScottinPollock » 2018-07-20 08:27:29

Philip is right, this is not a bug, but a "feature" of the OS, and many apps (especially Apple's) behave this way. While I suppose this "versioning" feature is useful for many, I prefer to do my version control manually.

You can prevent the autosave feature from writing to the file by checking "Ask to keep changes when closing documents" in the General pane of System Preferences. You'll still retain the versioning feature, but it will not automatically write the auto-saved changes to the original file when you do a "Save As…".

Vanceone
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Re: "Save As" bug?

Post by Vanceone » 2018-07-20 08:37:08

I'll disagree slightly with phspaelti: this isn't a bug, but it's clearly not what you intended.

What is going on is that Nisus is autosaving your document. When you save as, you are getting your new document, but at the same time the old one has been autosaved (likely just before you issued the "Save as" command). Sometimes this happens to me and I use the "revert to" command which brings up the Time machine style interface. And then I go back to the previous version that way.

Ever since Lion, this is how Mac apps are supposed to work. As Phspaelti says, do the "Save As" first before you edit the old one, or "Duplicate" (though I am not sure the Duplicate command actually duplicates the document... the manual only says it duplicates the window and selects the title of the new window. Nothing about saving the duplicate document)

alanterra
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Re: "Save As" bug?

Post by alanterra » 2018-09-21 09:41:18

This is absolutely one of the worst design ideas that Apple has had. Luckily many apps that I use every day (like Adobe's apps) have not followed this insanity, but for those that have (Nisus, PDFPen) I destroy documents on a regular basis. (Open a document that I want to use as a model for a new document, delete everything, Save As new name) — Oops, I destroyed my old document and I don't even know it, and won't until I go back to that old document many months or years from now (after my backups have cycled off). I hate Apple's "improvements" in so many ways, but this is definitely one of the worst. Not only do I have to remember to do things in the reverse order — first save, then change — which makes no sense; but half of my apps behave one way and half the other, and I have to remember that every time I do a cmd-option-S.

Þorvarður
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Re: "Save As" bug?

Post by Þorvarður » 2018-09-21 17:04:15

bassrun wrote:
2018-07-18 11:32:15
I'll modify an existing document, choose “Save As,” and assign a name to the modified document. But when I go back to the original document, it’s now been replaced by the modified document!
When you wrote this last July you were running OS 10.11.6. I'm running macOS Sierra 10.12.6 now. And guess what! My Nisus Writer Pro 2.1.8 does exactly what you want!

I tested this now:
[1] I opened an old Nisus text document
[2] Deleted everything except the first sentence. Added a few words
[3] Saved As
[4] Closed the new 'saved as' document and opened the first document again
[5] *Nothing* had been deleted; the new words were not there, and everything looked like in the beginning under [1]

It may very well be that Apple got second thoughts after all the outcry that the new 'Save As' caused in Lion and that they finally decided to return back to the previous state. I very seldom use 'Save As', so I can't say when this was altered.

Vanceone wrote:
What is going on is that Nisus is autosaving your document. When you save as, you are getting your new document, but at the same time the old one has been autosaved (likely just before you issued the "Save as" command).
In a second test I deleted everything except the first sentence in the old document (like in [2]); I WAITED until I heard the autosave signal; *then* I executed 'Saved As'.
This autosaving did not seem to make any difference. The old document was not overwritten.

I'm interested in hearing whether other Nisus users, running macOS Sierra 10.12.6 or higher, can confirm these test results.

adryan
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Location: Australia

Re: "Save As" bug?

Post by adryan » 2018-09-22 01:43:48

G'day, Þorvarður et al

First, notice that in the Save As… dialog box there is an option to "Keep changes in original document".

I did the step-by-step process in Þorvarður's first test, using a different filename with Save As…. With the above option checked, the files ended up the same: the original file and the edited version both showed the changes. With the option unchecked, the files differed: the original file remained in its original condition, and the edited version was the only one to show the changes.

I don't really see the use of offering the option to "Keep changes in original document" when you've chosen to use the Save As… command rather than the Save command. It just becomes too confusing and increases the risk of losing data. I think it's preferable to make sure that checkbox is unchecked before you hit the Save button in a Save As… dialog box.

Cheers,
Adrian
MacBook Pro (mid-2014)
macOS Sierra 10.12.6
Nisus Writer user since 1996

Þorvarður
Posts: 251
Joined: 2012-12-19 05:02:52

Re: "Save As" bug?

Post by Þorvarður » 2018-09-22 08:44:47

adryan wrote:
2018-09-22 01:43:48
in the Save As… dialog box there is an option to "Keep changes in original document". […] I think it's preferable to make sure that checkbox is unchecked before you hit the Save button in a Save As… dialog box.
You are right Adrian, I have always left this checkbox unchecked. I should have mentioned that. Thanks for clarifying this important detail.

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