Retaining styles and formatting

[cchapin]

Nisus Writer Express has a behavior that is not a serious problem but that, in my opinion, is less than ideal. I wonder how others feel about it and whether it can be changed in future releases?

• Scenario 1. At the end of a document (unless the document is otherwise empty), I apply a paragraph style or paragraph formatting. I start to type. For whatever reason (a typo or a change of mind), I delete the existing text in the paragraph and begin typing again. What I type does not have the style or formatting of what was deleted.

• Scenario 2. I apply a character style or character formatting and type some text. For whatever reason, I delete at least the first character and type something to replace it. Except at the beginning of a paragraph, what I type does not have the style or formatting of what was deleted.

• Scenario 3. Similarly, I move the insertion point to the beginning of the first or only word in a formatted or styled string of text. I start to type. The existing formatting or style is not applied to the new text.

I'd prefer to see this behavior.

• When a user has just deleted part or all of a string of styled or formatted text (but not surrounding text or a paragraph break) and has not subsequently moved the insertion point or explicitly turned off the style/formatting, what he or she next types will share the formatting or style of the deleted text.

• When a user moves the insertion point to the beginning of a word that has character formatting or a character style, what he or she next types will share the formatting or style of that word. (This is already the case at the end of a word.)

Any thoughts?

--Craig

[JBL]

My feeling is that the choice in these situations is somewhat arbitrary (should the formatting be that of what comes before or comes after). In all the text editing programs I deal with I have the problem that sometimes formatting just disappears (as in the cases you mentioned) and sometimes I can't get the formatting to go away (there is some residual code saying that things should be underlined when I have erased everything I wanted underlined). Quite frankly, I find the second situation more irritating.

General human factors guidelines say that when you have an arbitrary decision you should, to the extent possible, opt for standardization. In this case the people at Nisus seem to have gone with the Cocoa standard. I can't argue with that.

One thing you might try doing as a work around of sorts is, when you apply character formatting, to apply it to the space ahead of the text you want formatted. An italicized space looks the same as a regular one but if you type something after it what you type will be italicized.

[gemboy27]

This has been troublesome for me as well...

what I have done is to set up styles and character and add a short cut


so for a script
command-1 is Character
command-2 is dialog
command-3 is for directions

(would love to import these into older files)


one note about this

command-` is used by Nisus for normal text, but mac uses it to move from document to document. Just as command-tab is used to move from program to program. So often - out of habbit - I am trying to jump to another document and I actually change formating to normal.

[gemboy27]

Let me add

If I had a choice

for short cut keys I would like it so I don't HAVE to use command

this would open up

control-1
control-2
control-a

and so on

tanks

[cchapin]

one note about this

command-` is used by Nisus for normal text, but mac uses it to move from document to document. Just as command-tab is used to move from program to program. So often - out of habbit - I am trying to jump to another document and I actually change formating to normal.

I was bothered by this, too, so I changed the shortcut to command-shift-`. I might change it to something else later if I decide that makes more sense.

--Craig

[gemboy27]

That appears to only work for the new documents, older ones still have

command-`

as a default


To live a creative life, we must lose our fear of being wrong. - - Joseph Chilton Pearce

[cchapin]

Ah, yes. I guess you'd have to change them all individually, wouldn't you? Nisus should perhaps consider changing this default shortcut. Not that that would solve the problem with documents already created either.

--Craig

[cchapin]

Since the issues involved in my first posting came up again elsewhere on the forum, I thought I'd revive this topic.

I agree with JBL that I don't want empty styles cluttering my documents. What I'm proposing (in the first of the two proposals) is that a style or character format persist even if it's empty (that is, if it affects no text) until I change it or move the insertion point. I do think, with JBL, that it should self-destruct if absolutely nothing, not even the insertion point, is between the style-on and style-off codes.

I've played with this in Mail and TextEdit, and they handle it differently, so I'm not so sure that it's a standard Cocoa behavior. (Perhaps JBL was thinking of my second proposal only when he responded.) Does anyone else have an opinion regarding the first of the two proposals I made near the end of the first posting in this topic? I'll quote it again here:

When a user has just deleted part or all of a string of styled or formatted text (but not surrounding text or a paragraph break) and has not subsequently moved the insertion point or explicitly turned off the style/formatting, what he or she next types will share the formatting or style of the deleted text.

--Craig