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Upgrade to 3.0 costs money?! 
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Joined: 2007-02-12 15:55:30
Posts: 32
Nisus Express 2.7 user here. I've been semi-active on this forum reporting bugs, one of which (at least) I've been told is incorporated into 3.0.

The way the guys from Nisus talked here, I got the impression the step up to 3.0 would be free of charge.

Sadly, in one of those illogical business decisions favored by the software industry, I'm being asked to pay $30 to "upgrade" and receive necessary bug fixes. What's worse is that I was waiting for this fix through the Writer Pro period. We were promised it would arrive eventually.

iWork 08 is $79, which is just under twice the price of a new Nisus Express license, and you get a whole lot more (including a very, very good word processor).

I don't say this spitefully, but you guys really have just lost a loyal customer who liked your product. If I'm going to have to splash out cash on buying more software, I might as well pay for iWork 08 and get Keynotes/Numbers.


2007-09-17 09:58:43
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Joined: 2003-11-21 19:25:28
Posts: 333
Location: Sydney, Australia
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I can't recall any information from Nisus that might have led you to believe that NWX upgrade would be free - aside from the fact that all previous upgrades since 1.0 was released were. iWork '08 is indeed good value at $79, if you don't already have an earlier version of iWork and want to upgrade to '08. iWork is going to cost you $79 or thereabouts every 12-18 months as new versions are released, there is no upgrade discount with iWork (or iLife), you pay full fare every time a major new version is released.

NWX is not just a bugfix release, it contains several new features and is therefore not free, but at $30 to upgrade it's considerably cheaper than paying Apple $79 to "upgrade" from iWork '06 to iWork '08.


2007-09-17 15:08:39
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dshan wrote:
I can't recall any information from Nisus that might have led you to believe that NWX upgrade would be free - aside from the fact that all previous upgrades since 1.0 was released were.


There's nothing I need add to this.

dshan wrote:
NWX is not just a bugfix release, it contains several new features and is therefore not free, but at $30 to upgrade it's considerably cheaper than paying Apple $79 to "upgrade" from iWork '06 to iWork '08.


Your talk of "upgrades" for iWork is baffling. You should be a politician.

With iWorks 08 I get a presentations package AND a spreadsheet. I can live without a presentations package but the spreadsheet is pretty damn useful. And, like I say, Pages is very, very good. It lacks some features of Nisus Express but has many more, plus the backing of Apple.

But my original point was that I expect buggy software to be fixed. I'm not being unreasonable here. This is how software companies generally operate. They release buggy software. They fix it for free. It's a responsibility they must bear.

Nisus Express 2.7 has some major bugs (check my previous postings for details). As far as I can tell, these aren't going to be fixed for free, and my only option is to pay $30 for a "new" version. Cynics would suggest they built in the new features to give them an excuse to charge for an upgrade.

There will always be fans of a particular software package who act as apologists for the company behind it, and I think you fall into this camp. I too used to be a fan of Nisus. No more.

Nisus are blithely driving themselves into a brick wall here by not supporting loyal customers, especially bearing in mind the serious competition from Apple. In fact, their timing couldn't have been worse, bearing in mind iWorks 08 has just been released.


2007-09-18 02:03:20
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Joined: 2003-04-03 08:38:41
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Location: Linköping, Sweden
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r-sparks wrote:
Nisus are blithely driving themselves into a brick wall here by not supporting loyal customers, especially bearing in mind the serious competition from Apple. In fact, their timing couldn't have been worse, bearing in mind iWorks 08 has just been released.


If the definition of "loyal customers" means not having to pay for an upgrade, then no companies would ever survive long enough to release an upgrade. :roll:

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2007-09-18 02:19:02
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Joined: 2004-04-13 04:44:40
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Location: Chatham, UK
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r-sparks wrote:
Nisus are blithely driving themselves into a brick wall here by not supporting loyal customers, especially bearing in mind the serious competition from Apple. In fact, their timing couldn't have been worse, bearing in mind iWorks 08 has just been released.


I'm happy to pay to upgrade, especially since I've not paid for any of the upgrades of NWE2, over a couple of years or more. And I've helped with my fair share of bug reports, too. I think NWE is excellent value for money for a robust, powerful word processor.

So, let me get this straight. You're happy to pay a reasonable sum to buy the software in the first instance. However, you're unhappy to pay for an updated version, at a price that's a lot less than a decent night out, after seven free updates. And in the meantime, Nisus is supposed to survive on new licences alone?

I think some folk need a reality check. :wink:


2007-09-18 09:54:03
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Joined: 2003-11-21 19:25:28
Posts: 333
Location: Sydney, Australia
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r-sparks wrote:
Your talk of "upgrades" for iWork is baffling. You should be a politician.

With iWorks 08 I get a presentations package AND a spreadsheet. I can live without a presentations package but the spreadsheet is pretty damn useful. And, like I say, Pages is very, very good. It lacks some features of Nisus Express but has many more, plus the backing of Apple.


I fail to understand why you find my pointing out that there is no upgrade pricing for iWork baffling. It's simply a fact that if you want to keep up with iWork you have to repurchase it every 12-18 months. Yes, this time you got a new app added (great if you will use it, useless if you won't) but that doesn't happen every time (iWork '05 to iWork '06 was just new versions of Pages and Keynote for example) and you still pay full price for the new version either way.

r-sparks wrote:
But my original point was that I expect buggy software to be fixed. I'm not being unreasonable here. This is how software companies generally operate. They release buggy software. They fix it for free. It's a responsibility they must bear.


Having worked for several software companies I can tell you that Nisus are (now) working as software companies typically do. They issue minor point releases that fix bugs in the current version for free and then at some point come out with a new "feature" release that both adds new features and fixes known bugs from the previous version(s) - and they charge an upgrade fee for this. Then they go through the cycle again issuing one or more free point releases to fix bugs in the new version until they are ready to do another non-free feature release.

r-sparks wrote:
Nisus Express 2.7 has some major bugs (check my previous postings for details). As far as I can tell, these aren't going to be fixed for free, and my only option is to pay $30 for a "new" version. Cynics would suggest they built in the new features to give them an excuse to charge for an upgrade.


I agree, I don't see them continuing to patch 2.7 now that both NWX 3.0 and NWP 1.0 have been released. As I said this is the typical release cycle for commercial software. Apple aren't going to be issue any more bugfixes for iWork '06 now that '08 is out, if you want the latest fixes you have to buy '08 to get them.

Cynics could suggest they only did 3.0 to have an excuse to charge for an upgrade, but only if they have no use for the new features in 3.0.

r-sparks wrote:
There will always be fans of a particular software package who act as apologists for the company behind it, and I think you fall into this camp. I too used to be a fan of Nisus. No more.

Nisus are blithely driving themselves into a brick wall here by not supporting loyal customers, especially bearing in mind the serious competition from Apple. In fact, their timing couldn't have been worse, bearing in mind iWorks 08 has just been released.


I am neither a politician nor an apologist for Nisus, I simply understand that Nisus have to make money to survive (as do Apple, MS and all other commercial entities). I figured out long ago that they couldn't keep releasing new versions of NWX for free to existing customers forever, particularly when they reduced the new purchase price of NWX upon the release of Pro.

I think Nisus have supported their loyal customers very well, I've had NWX go from 1.0 to 2.7 (adding both new features and many bugfixes along the way) for the $59.95 I paid way back in 2003 - over four years of free upgrades! Name another software company that has done anything like that.

How iWork '08 will affect Nisus remains to be seen, however I suspect Word will continue to be the bigger problem (particularly when Office 2008 arrives next year, sometime...)

Frankly, I've been burnt by Apple's office software "strategy" before - I used to be a ClarisWorks customer, then AppleWorks, and now iWork; three steps forward and two steps back followed by one step forward and one step back, and repeat (after taking a several-year long snooze). I wish you good luck with it.


2007-09-18 16:03:05
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Joined: 2006-06-29 07:56:30
Posts: 81
Location: Hudson River Valley, NY
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I agree that three years of free upgrades to NWX 2 was a generous policy. Actually, I was surprised that Nisus continued NWX at all. I think that a reasonable business strategy for a small company would have been to offer only the $49.00 upgrade to the much more powerful NWP. Supporting one program is hard enough!
'
Now back to writing...


2007-09-18 18:39:25
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Joined: 2007-02-12 15:55:30
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HeatherKay wrote:
r-sparks wrote:
So, let me get this straight. You're happy to pay a reasonable sum to buy the software in the first instance. However, you're unhappy to pay for an updated version, at a price that's a lot less than a decent night out, after seven free updates. And in the meantime, Nisus is supposed to survive on new licences alone?

I think some folk need a reality check. :wink:


Seems like few folk are reading what I wrote. I realise it's hard work.

Let me say again (and for the last time): My issue is being forced to pay for fixes. We're NOT talking about my reluctance to pay for an upgraded product with new features. I don't want the damn new product! I just want the product I paid for to work properly and for Nisus to act like any other responsible software company and fix the bugs in its product for free.

Now you can read any kind of message into what I say here, or you can wilfully misinterpret it. But I can't make it any clearer than this.


2007-09-21 11:22:40
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Joined: 2007-09-22 07:07:13
Posts: 2
Location: Israel
I paid for the 1 and 2.+ versions, and have been working with Nisus Express along side Mellel and Office. There is no way i'm paying for this upgrade, which i don't see as a big one, despite of what some of you are saying (Test wrap? please...it's on other programs for ages...).
I'll just move over to Mellel or Office completely. A minor upgrade (yes, i maintain it is minor) that costs 66% of the original price is unfair, and almost offensive for me as a client.


2007-09-22 07:15:51
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Joined: 2004-10-26 07:10:40
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Location: Tucson, AZ
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version 2 was a free upgrade to version 1. if you paid for it, you did it out of charity. and have fun getting mellel to wrap text around images.

s.

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2007-09-22 12:35:09
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Joined: 2004-04-13 04:44:40
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Location: Chatham, UK
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r-sparks wrote:
I just want the product I paid for to work properly and for Nisus to act like any other responsible software company and fix the bugs in its product for free.


Nisus did just that right through version 2. Each new release contained bug fixes and new features. I do not think that being asked to pay a small amount to upgrade to version 3 is irresponsible.

No software can ever be completely bug free. I challenge you to show me any software, past or present, which is totally bug free and feature complete. Software development - something I do know something about, as I work for a software company writing and maintaining their user guides - is a continual process. That's why it's known as development.

Next you'll be telling me you're still waiting on Quark to finish XPress 1.0 before you upgrade, or Apple to complete the work on System 1. :roll:


2007-09-22 23:59:47
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Joined: 2007-02-12 15:55:30
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HeatherKay wrote:
Nisus did just that right through version 2. Each new release contained bug fixes and new features. I do not think that being asked to pay a small amount to upgrade to version 3 is irresponsible


As I said, there are always people who will act as apologists for products they like.

What matters here is that I no longer use Nisus. Once upon a time I loved it, and even emailed the company to tell them so. I've now switched to Pages 08.

I had no intention to do this until it became clear that I would have to repurchase Nisus. Because I would be paying for essential bug fixes, and a handful of features I would never use, I decided to switch on moral grounds, if nothing else.

It seems I'm not alone. In his message above, talik also says he's refusing to upgrade. Who knows how many others there are.

There are good ways of doing business, and bad ways of doing business. The worst software companies hold their users to ransom. Nisus have done this by releasing a bug fix upgrade with useless "new" features.

They are losing customers. Nobody can see this as a good thing—not even you.


2007-09-23 00:53:18
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Joined: 2007-02-12 15:55:30
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ssampler wrote:
I agree that three years of free upgrades to NWX 2 was a generous policy. Actually, I was surprised that Nisus continued NWX at all. I think that a reasonable business strategy for a small company would have been to offer only the $49.00 upgrade to the much more powerful NWP. Supporting one program is hard enough!
'
Now back to writing...


This would have been a more honourable business decision. Nisus should have declared end-of-life for Nisus Express and required users to upgrade to the Pro version. Personally I wouldn't have minded this. End-of-life is end-of-life; no more bug fixes. Fair enough.

Instead they released a point upgrade of Express and asked existing customers to repurchase it.


2007-09-23 01:02:07
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Joined: 2003-04-03 08:38:41
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Location: Linköping, Sweden
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r-sparks wrote:
ssampler wrote:
I agree that three years of free upgrades to NWX 2 was a generous policy. Actually, I was surprised that Nisus continued NWX at all. I think that a reasonable business strategy for a small company would have been to offer only the $49.00 upgrade to the much more powerful NWP. Supporting one program is hard enough!
'
Now back to writing...


This would have been a more honourable business decision. Nisus should have declared end-of-life for Nisus Express and required users to upgrade to the Pro version. Personally I wouldn't have minded this. End-of-life is end-of-life; no more bug fixes. Fair enough.

Instead they released a point upgrade of Express and asked existing customers to repurchase it.


I can agree on this one. Nisus should have recommended all their old customers to buy their new product instead of having two, in many ways, similar products. NWP is the future for Nisus Inc, not the old NWE. That's my opinion anyway.

I have been using NWE ever since it came out several years ago, even though my main writing tool today is Mellel (but I do use NWE sometimes and my daughter has been using it for years now), but if I should decided to buy or upgrade to one of these Nisus products, I should go for the NWP and not the NWE 3.0.

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2007-09-23 01:18:33
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Joined: 2005-06-06 13:54:34
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I just managed to waste my time downloading the upgrade - I didn't read (or expect) that I'd have to pay for it, so I had to re-download and install the 2.7 version again.

Is Pro worth getting? I don't want to pay for an update of Express if it's already out of date.


2007-09-23 10:27:40
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