Underlining still needs to be fixed

[greenmorpher]

The subject line says it all. In most fonts, the underline is right on the line, touching the bottom of the letters. You can move the type away from the line by using Menu Bar > Format > Baseline > Raise Baseline, but that moves the underlined type out of line with other type that is still on the baseline.

Does changing the baseline move the type WITHIN the line spacing rather than ADDING TO the line spacing?

If it actually does move the line WITHIN the line space, could that offer a solution both to the underline problem and to the matter discussed a while ago -- excess space at the top of pages when line spacing is varied?

I can see that when I want to use underlining, I could set up Type Styles with the baseline raised a point or two.

Should Nisus Writer work on this basis? Should it's "normal" position for type be a point or two above the baseline, with the space varying according to the line spacing, rather than right on the baseline.

Cheers, Geoff

Geoffrey Heard, Business Writer & Publisher

"Type & Layout" -- how you can use type and layout to turbocharge your messages in print; "Success in Store" -- go retail, enjoy it and make money. Real business smarts @ just $29.95. See these books and more at http://www.worsleypress.com

[Elbrecht]

Hi Geoff -

Underlining is a font feature - and typographically not recommanded. I guess that's why Underlining is so badly done - NO fontographer really cares... For transliteration I use special pre-composed characters (from my Private Use Area).
But that seems not what you are asking for...

HE

[martin]

I'm not sure I understand what the problem is. The Apple text system works by unifying the vertical position of the underline for the entire run of underlined text. In other words, it does extra work so that the underline is a single unbroken line running the length of all underlined text. I imagine this is by design.

Picture 1.png (6.17 KiB) Viewed 7714 times

[Elbrecht]

Well -

as far as I understand Geoff asks for being able to define Underlining: its width and its position. This used to be a font feature - but NO fontographer cares, because Underlining is just no way to go - typographically!



Don't know how to override this systematically...
HE

[greenmorpher]

Hello folks

I want to be able to underline a word or two from time to time in e.g. direct mail letters -- and as I could in days of yore, I want the underlined words to stay in the same line as the rest of the text on that line, and I want the line not to interfere with the shape of the letters.

The problem now is that the underline is too close to the letters. It needs to be separated from them by a little bit so it adds emphasis but leaves the letters legible. In the good old days, this happened as in the Canvas sample shown; today it is not happening, as in the NWP sample shown. I can get a decent space under the letters by raising the baseline, but that puts the underlined word out of line.

Elbrecht, I appreciate it is not good typographical practice but it is very useful and works very well for emphasising a few words in something like a direct marketing letter. The trick, of course, is to not overdo it.

Cheers, Geoff

Geoffrey Heard, Business Writer & Publisher

"Type & Layout" -- how you can use type and layout to turbocharge your messages in print; "Success in Store" -- go retail, enjoy it and make money. Real business smarts @ just $29.95. See these books and more at http://www.worsleypress.com

[greenmorpher]

Hmmm -- in the rendering to 72 dpi, the gap between the baseline of the type and the underline in the Canvas example using Verdana has narrowed by half. But you get the picture.

Cheers, Geoff

Geoffrey Heard, Business Writer & Publisher

"Type & Layout" -- how you can use type and layout to turbocharge your messages in print; "Success in Store" -- go retail, enjoy it and make money. Real business smarts @ just $29.95. See these books and more at http://www.worsleypress.com

[xiamenese]

Geoff,

Putting forward yet another kludge: if you know you are going to have to underline a word or two in a given document, and you want the extra spacing, could you not simply raise the baseline on the whole of your paragraph, adding in a little extra line height if strictly necessary. Then you have the space between the word and the underline, but you'll still line up with the rest of the text ... set a paragraph style in which the font has a raised baseline?

Mark

[greenmorpher]

I was thinking the same thing as a workaround, Mark. But not really pretty!

But back on my Fat Mac, I could do it right!

Cheers, Geoff

Geoffrey Heard, Business Writer & Publisher

"Type & Layout" -- how you can use type and layout to turbocharge your messages in print; "Success in Store" -- go retail, enjoy it and make money. Real business smarts @ just $29.95. See these books and more at http://www.worsleypress.com