Trouble getting a Paragraph Style "to stick."

[JLSchweitzer]

I work as a University professor. As such, I need to create multiple choice test questions. I searched the forum and found a few threads on this topic. Based upon some very good information from Greenmorpher (Geoff) and Martin (from Nisus) I was able to get pretty far down the road. Using Martin's template, I was able to construct two paragraph styles that allowed me to quickly add Numbers questions, followed by alphabetic answers. Sort of like this:

1. Who sang "William, it was really nothing"? and
what year. (unfortunately this doesn't display how it looks in Nisus. Just image that the word "what" (in the second line) is aligned with "who" in the first line)
a. The Cure, 1982
b. The Jam, 1979
c. Siouxsie and the Banshees, 1999
d. The Smiths, 1984

But I decided I really wanted a hanging indent. Although it doesn't look like, the "question verbiage" is justified (not sure this is the proper term). What I really wanted was a hanging indent but I couldn't figure out how to easily do this. As a work around, I discovered that if I added a custom Tab Stop, I could get the desired results. To make it easier, I've attached a screencap of the style sheet pane showing a how I used the template to create my two styles.

So here's what I really wanted.

1. Who sang "William, it was really nothing"? and
what year.
a. The Cure, 1982
b. The Jam, 1979
c. Siouxsie and the Banshees, 1999
d. The Smiths, 1984

To get here, I add the tab stop, and then move the left line indent droplet back to the left. (See the second screencap, below). I then save this as the default Nisus New File, but when I start a new document, it reverts back to NO custom tab stop and the left line indent moves the right (just like the "question style before, shown below).

S-o-o-o why can't I get Nisus to "remember" this Style. BTW, I've also tried saving this by using the "Redefine Style by Selection" but this doesn't save it.

I'm sure I’m missing something very simple but I've tried for the past two or three days just to save this style. I'm sure I'm leaving out one very simple step but this is getting quite frustrating.

Thanks!!

[xiamenese]

I think that the problem is that you're trying to set your hanging indent in your <Question> style. Try checking the settings in the <Number List> style and adjust them for the format — full-stop or not, tab-space, etc. — for what you want in hanging indent terms and simply let <Question> call that; remove any tab-marker you have entered. I have an M/C template set up — I keep it separate from my New File. It looks like your "before" image, but saved perfectly well. You will see I prefer ballot-box bullets rather than letters for the answer (Though I have been known to combine them!)

Unless of course,you and I are using "hanging indent" to mean different things.

Mark

Question Style

Screen Shot 1.png (64.33 KiB) Viewed 9936 times

Number List Style

Screen Shot 2.png (65.87 KiB) Viewed 9936 times

M/C Test

Screen Shot 3.png (53.33 KiB) Viewed 9936 times

[JLSchweitzer]

Mark:

You are correct in that I should have said FIRST line indent, instead of HANGING indent. My apologies. I will attach two files to show in better detail what I'm trying to do. Unfortunately, this word processing abilities of this forum don't allow me to clearly show what I'm talking about.

I should add that what I'm trying to do in overwrite the current number list (shown in Number List below) with the pseudo-hanging indent (also shown below). As I said before, I've edited the Numbered List and then use "Redefine Style from Selection" but this doesn't stick. Since this is a very common task, I want this Style to be included in my default template so I've also tried opening the New Nisus File, changing this Style Sheet and saving it but alas, this style sheet reverts back to the regular old Number List.

[xiamenese]

Mark:

You are correct in that I should have said FIRST line indent, instead of HANGING indent. My apologies. I will attach two files to show in better detail what I'm trying to do. Unfortunately, this word processing abilities of this forum don't allow me to clearly show what I'm talking about.

I should add that what I'm trying to do in overwrite the current number list (shown in Number List below) with the pseudo-hanging indent (also shown below). As I said before, I've edited the Numbered List and then use "Redefine Style from Selection" but this doesn't stick. Since this is a very common task, I want this Style to be included in my default template so I've also tried opening the New Nisus File, changing this Style Sheet and saving it but alas, this style sheet reverts back to the regular old Number List.

Ok, I've got you. It's not the way I would set up my questions, hence my confusion.

I've been able to quickly set up a sort of template which does what you want. I think the problem may lie in the fact that you're trying to do it partly through "Redefine Style from Selection". I did it by working in styles view.
First, I edited the Numbered List format using the palette, so that Level 1 has an "Item" indent of 0.0 and "Text" has an indent of 0.0, which gives you the flush left margin; in the "After text" area I removed the full-stop after the number and put in a tab (with Alt-Tab).
I then created a new style using the "+" button at the foot of the list of styles in styles view, and gave it a name. I set it to use List style. I clicked in the ruler to add a tab point at the .5 cm mark.

I then saved it as a .dot. It works fine with one peculiarity. If I begin by typing some instructions in "Normal" style, then do a carriage return and set the new paragraph to the question style, as I start typing there is no number and tab. That only appears when I get to the end of the question and do a return.

Obviously, I haven't set up an answer style, but I'd do that again by a similar process.

So it can be done. Hope that helps.

Mark

[JLSchweitzer]

Thanks Mark.

I guess this then begs the questions, can you alter or change a Style thru "Redefine Style from Selection". From its name, it would seem that it should allow you to change a Style. From my standpoint--and I must admit to being a newbie--it doesn't do what its name implies it would do. Do I dare ask if this is a bug? I doubt that it is b/c I can't believe I'm the first to try and use this since version 2.0 came out. In thinking about this, maybe I'm not including "enough" information, namely the spacing after the question part (Paragraph Spacing).

[JLSchweitzer]

After several posts I want to make clear that what I'm asking is HOW to modify the Paragraph Style, NOT how to do it. I pretty confident I've figured out how to do this, it's just that every time I try to save the changes, they don't "stick", i.e., the Style "reverts" back to the original form.

I hope this makes sense. I really hate having to use so may words in quotation marks, but part of the problem maybe that as I said before, I'm a newbie and I missing one critical step.

Thanks!!

[martin]

I guess this then begs the questions, can you alter or change a Style thru "Redefine Style from Selection". From its name, it would seem that it should allow you to change a Style. From my standpoint--and I must admit to being a newbie--it doesn't do what its name implies it would do. Do I dare ask if this is a bug?

The Redefine Style command should indeed modify the style as you wish, and the failure to zero the indents looks like a bug. It probably has to do with the way overrides are calculated. The bug only manifests when trying to zero the indents; any other non-zero value is properly applied by the command. I'll file a bug, thanks.

After several posts I want to make clear that what I'm asking is HOW to modify the Paragraph Style, NOT how to do it. I pretty confident I've figured out how to do this, it's just that every time I try to save the changes, they don't "stick", i.e., the Style "reverts" back to the original form.

If I understand correctly, you've been able to configure your Question style and everything appears properly in your document. It's only after you save and reopen the file that things are incorrectly displayed. Is that correct? You mention trying to alter your Nisus New File; does reopening a file restore your style formatting in a normal (non-template) file?

[JLSchweitzer]

Martin:

Since you've said that maybe this is a bug (to zero the indents), it could be that there is nothing I could do to get it "to stick." So your first answer may be sorta answering or explaining why I can't save the paragraph style as I've illustrated.

Hope this makes sense.

[xiamenese]

I have to apologise: (1) I have been too busy recently to respond to your answer to my last submission; and (2) I didn't take on board clearly the facts that: (a) you were wanting to modify an existing style rather than set up a new one; and (b) that you were wanting to do so entirely through "redefine". Although I have occasionally set up new styles on the basis of existing paragraphs, when I've wanted to modify or refine styles I have set up, I have always done it through the Styles View, rather than through changing a paragraph in Page View and asking NWP to revise the style on that basis.

So apologies for having been so obtuse and trying to point you in a direction you didn't want to go. I'm glad Martin has finally come in and confirmed that your problem is indeed a bug in NWP.

Mark

[martin]

Since you've said that maybe this is a bug (to zero the indents), it could be that there is nothing I could do to get it "to stick."

Sorry if I was unclear above, but the bug that prevents the indents from zeroing only affects the command Redefine Style from Selection. If you enter the Style Sheet view and adjust the indents manually (using the ruler or the Paragraph palette) you shouldn't have any trouble zeroing the indents.

From the screenshots you'd posted earlier, I thought you'd already achieved the desired indents using the stylesheet view, and at this point the problem was that reopening the file triggered a loss of the indents. Have I misunderstood? Have you not been able to use the stylesheet to achieve the desired zeroed indents?

[JLSchweitzer]

Mark:

Perfectly understand. Your work is voluntary on the boards so anything you supply is appreciated.

Martin:

You must be psychic because as you deduced, the problem was that reopening the file triggered the loss of indents.

Long story short, can't use the stylesheets to achieve the desired results.

[JLSchweitzer]

Everyone:

ABORT. ABORT. ABORT.

When I started doing this, I started the question/answer style based upon something that Martin posted to help another forum member. Or maybe it was something Geoff posted. Or most likely a combination.

Anyway, I decided to start afresh, creating a new style since I have become much more comfortable with styles. And guess what?

I've got it working properly with pseudo-first line indents, correct spacing between the question part and the answer part. And even spacing between the questions. I then created a keyboard shortcut, Cmd-K-K to apply the style. The only hard part was that each time I pressed the keyboard shortcut (to begin a new question), it started numbering all over again, i.e., number one. I then figured out that if I created a second question, a second part of the style sheet popped up (the number list) and there is an option to continue numbering across document content.

BTW, I've found that the EASIEST way to incorporate new Styles into you normal template is to go to Preferences | New File | Advanced and then chose to open the default template for editing. After making your edits, simply Close the document and Nisus will automatically ask if you want to save the file as Nisus New File dot dot (Nisus New File.dot). I've seen this in the manual and on the forum but it just didn't click until I FOLLOWED DIRECTIONS. It's amazing what happens when you sit down and calmly follow the directions or manual.

Thanks to Mark, Martin, and Geoff for helping me to figure this out.

[martin]

Excellent, I'd glad everything is working well for you now! I'm not sure I understand entirely what was going awry beforehand, but it sounds like maybe you weren't saving the Nisus New File properly somehow. Well, let us know if you have any further troubles.