paragraph shading overlaps floating images

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feat
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paragraph shading overlaps floating images

Post by feat » 2011-07-09 08:12:54

I'm having issues when migrating from Nisus Writer 1 to 2, as shown by the pictures I attached…

The first one has no workaround that I can think of: there's simply no way to do with NW 2 what could be done with NW 1; as shown by the pictures, the paragraph titles had a background color in NW 1, which I implemented in NW 2 with the paragraph shading feature — with the visible result that the shading doesn't honor the floating image area.

The second one is because graphics aren't exactly at the same place, and this can change the layout a lot: this is page 87 when the document is opened with NW 1.4.1, but page 89 when opened with NW 2.0 (0400.0004.02); please notice the second diagram on the page is slightly offset to the right by NW 2.0, and this, in turn, changes the text layout… and it changes it so much that the very same document will need 4 more pages than when printed with NW 1.4.1.

But of course it's no use to print it since the page numbers are wrong…

Image

Image

feat
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Re: paragraph shading overlaps floating images

Post by feat » 2011-07-14 05:58:14

thinking it over…
  • that the second diagram is offset to the right by NW 2 looks like a clever attempt to honor the corresponding text layout, which is not the case for the first diagram, where the text takes a 23-line space instead of 22
  • however, this is unfortunate: in my [humble] opinion, the best solution would be to reduce the size of the diagrams ever so slightly so they fit in the space originally allocated for NW 1 layout
  • otherwise, it is the user (me) who will have to resize all of them by hand, one by one
the bad news is there are several dozens of such diagrams — and I've got many documents like this one!

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martin
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Re: paragraph shading overlaps floating images

Post by martin » 2011-07-14 16:33:56

feat wrote:The first one has no workaround that I can think of: there's simply no way to do with NW 2 what could be done with NW 1; as shown by the pictures, the paragraph titles had a background color in NW 1, which I implemented in NW 2 with the paragraph shading feature — with the visible result that the shading doesn't honor the floating image area.
This is a bug; the paragraph shading shouldn't draw on top of the floating image, or perhaps extend into that area at all. I've filed it as something we need to resolve.
The second one is because graphics aren't exactly at the same place, and this can change the layout a lot: this is page 87 when the document is opened with NW 1.4.1, but page 89 when opened with NW 2.0 (0400.0004.02); please notice the second diagram on the page is slightly offset to the right by NW 2.0, and this, in turn, changes the text layout
Would you be able to send me a sample document where a floating image's position on the page is different in NWP 1.4.1 vs 2.0? I can take a look and see what the problem might be. Hopefully it's just a minor file interpretation error that we can quickly correct. Oh, it's important that the file has not yet been saved by version 2.0, ie: it should have been produced solely in 1.4.1.

feat
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Re: paragraph shading overlaps floating images

Post by feat » 2011-07-15 00:17:53

okay, I've sent the document above (as saved by NWP1) but all of my documents have issues with most image placements; when they don't, it's a particular case of the layout having only loose constraints between the text and its image;

after investigating a little closer, I found this is a conjunction of several problems…

1. new NWP2 settings that are added by default to existing floating graphics:
  • extra shape stroke: single line, 1/4 pt, opacity 100 %
  • extra shape wrap horizontal padding: 5 pt
which, obviously, add extra space to the image and change its placement… in my opinion, this should be optional, and set in the prefs: do everybody need frames around their images?

2. moreover:
  • floating diagrams are actually rendered a little larger than they should;
    meaning a slight size reduction is needed to match the original NWP1 layout
  • when inserted as a table cell, an image isn't actually larger, but it looks as it is handled in such a way that the text in the adjoining cell is bigger;
    e.g. if the text was set to 10 pt, it will need a reduction to 9.8 pt to be rendered exactly as it was with NWP1
of course, none of this would be relevant if my textbooks weren't typeset with NWP1 to begin with;

but considering that all in all I've got hundreds of figures in a handful of assorted documents, adjusting these settings individually for each image in each case is, well, much too tedious to be done manually…

feat
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Re: paragraph shading overlaps floating images

Post by feat » 2011-11-30 02:46:51

a 100 days later: as shown by the image below (captured while running NWP 2.0.2), this bug hasn't been squashed yet… and the paragraph-shading attribute color still prints on top of the floating image

and, oh, yes: when asked for a sample document long ago, this is precisely the one that I've sent to Nisus

I haven't had any news since then!
P-shading on top of F-image.png
P-shading on top of F-image.png (87.66 KiB) Viewed 5685 times
also: I'm sorry that the new shape attributes don't have the default value that would make them totally inconspicuous when migrating from NWP 1 to NWP 2, because it means that now I'll have to manually set that shape stroke to none — and horizontal padding to zero — for hundreds of images whereas NWP 1 used to print them without any frames…

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Re: paragraph shading overlaps floating images

Post by stevenrowat » 2012-07-09 17:09:48

martin wrote: This is a bug; the paragraph shading shouldn't draw on top of the floating image,
Hi Martin,

I've just discovered this bug. I have a page that has a shape drawn on it, and am using 'paragraph shading' to give a background color to the page. My shape is invisible behind the shading no matter what I do.

This seems serious. I want to use a light yellow color for the background of substantial blocks of text on almost 50 pages of the book I am working on, and several will have graphic shapes on them that need to be part of those blocks, but they will be invisible.

Are there any options? Or is it either shapes or shading, and not both?

Steven

feat
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Re: paragraph shading overlaps floating images

Post by feat » 2012-07-11 18:55:13

it's now been 368 days since I posted the original bug-report, and the bug is still waiting to be squashed… as a matter of fact, there are tricks NWP 1 could do that NWP 2 cannot, and this particular trick is very commonly used for web-page layout;

for instance: http://www.soundonsound.com/sos/aug11/a ... s-0811.htm
at the bottom of that page, there's an html text-box: black text on light-grey background, white title on black background; now, if you select the whole article and use the new nisus document with selection service, you'll end up with a mess... whereas NWP 1 would have yielded a perfect rendition!

now, look at this: http://www.soundonsound.com/sos/feb11/a ... s-0211.htm
basically, it's the same layout problem with the added complexity of the list-styled paragraphs + the floating graphics with attached caption... attempting to make a NWP document with this will prove that NWP cannot emulate html any longer; and unfortunately, the reverse is true: whichever workaround you use to emulate the above features with NWP won't export correctly to html. Period.

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Re: paragraph shading overlaps floating images

Post by stevenrowat » 2012-07-11 20:06:52

feat wrote:and use the new nisus document with selection service, you'll end up with a mess... whereas NWP 1 would have yielded a perfect rendition!
I tried this and am puzzled -- my result ignores all formatting of any sort. I just get plain ASCI text, black on white, all the same size. I don't think this is what you mean, is it? Does yours give you formatting, with colors and sizes, even if incorrectly done?

Steven

feat
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Re: paragraph shading overlaps floating images

Post by feat » 2012-07-12 08:32:00

I'm running NWP 2.0.2 [with OS X 10.5.8] and I didn't have to predefine a special capture format!

yes: I get assorted sizes for normal, small and caption-style text, plus the different levels of heading; and then I get the expected colors (both foreground and background), even though I lose the text-box-shape since the background color doesn't extend to the right margin as it once did...

feat
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Re: paragraph shading overlaps floating images

Post by feat » 2014-04-08 00:54:57

after so many months, are these bugs about to be squashed?

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Re: paragraph shading overlaps floating images

Post by phspaelti » 2014-04-08 01:39:17

feat wrote:after so many months, are these bugs about to be squashed?
What bugs are you talking about? Yes, paragraph color and background color draw over the floating graphic, but only if you set the graphic to "Draw behind text". That seems to be the default, so that is perhaps unfortunate.
I also just tried the new nisus document with selection service on the page you described and it worked fine for me, as far as I can tell.
philip

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martin
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Re: paragraph shading overlaps floating images

Post by martin » 2014-04-08 14:28:08

phspaelti wrote:Yes, paragraph color and background color draw over the floating graphic, but only if you set the graphic to "Draw behind text". That seems to be the default, so that is perhaps unfortunate.
As Philip says, paragraph shading no longer always draws over floating shapes. Release notes indicate this was fixed for Pro 2.0.5.

The default for the "draw behind text" option is whatever was last used. NWP remembers and applies that to any new shapes you create.
I also just tried the new nisus document with selection service on the page you described and it worked fine for me, as far as I can tell.
That's also working correctly as far as I can see, but how well it works will depend on your version of OSX and the specific web page. There's a few reasons for that, but they all come back to HTML. When you extract content like that using Safari, it uses the HTML data format to get the information between applications. NWP relies on OSX to decode this HTML.
feat wrote:The second one is because graphics aren't exactly at the same place, and this can change the layout a lot: this is page 87 when the document is opened with NW 1.4.1, but page 89 when opened with NW 2.0 (0400.0004.02); please notice the second diagram on the page is slightly offset to the right by NW 2.0, and this, in turn, changes the text layout
This bug in fidelity between NWP versions was fixed in Pro 2.0.3.

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