Nisus/Apple breaking at non-syllables, off by 1 letter

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withoutFeathers
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Joined: 2013-03-19 16:22:50

Nisus/Apple breaking at non-syllables, off by 1 letter

Post by withoutFeathers » 2017-02-26 20:28:55

Hi,
I'm working on a long book, and recently changed from OS 10.6 to 10.11.

I now discover what appears to be a bug in the Apple hyphenation in El Capitan: it's sometimes off by one letter, and always in the same way.
An example would be 'challenging'.
The correct hyphenation, which used to be there in the 10.6 Nisus version, was 'challeng- / ing'.
But now it breaks at 'challen-/ging'. This is incorrect.
I'm finding these regularly as I go through my book.

More details:
--I've found this about twenty times in my text; maybe more.
--It's always one extra letter added in the beginning of the word on the new line (ie, one extra letter removed from the end of the top line).
--It always creates a technically incorrect syllable split (ie, it was correct the old way).
--I can fix it by adding a soft hyphen in the proper place.

My Nisus is 2.1.5.
I have Languages:
Apple System Hyphenation selected.
'Min before' is 3 char.
'Min after' is 2 char.

WF

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martin
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Re: Nisus/Apple breaking at non-syllables, off by 1 letter

Post by martin » 2017-03-03 15:57:32

I'm not seeing this problem. I tried on OSX 10.11 with the settings you gave, in a small test document, and "challenging" is hyphenated correcting as challeng-ing. Would you be able to send us your document, to see if the problem depends on the full document?

withoutFeathers
Posts: 68
Joined: 2013-03-19 16:22:50

Re: Nisus/Apple breaking at non-syllables, off by 1 letter

Post by withoutFeathers » 2017-03-04 09:10:43

martin wrote:I'm not seeing this problem. I tried on OSX 10.11 with the settings you gave, in a small test document, and "challenging" is hyphenated correcting as challeng-ing. Would you be able to send us your document, to see if the problem depends on the full document?
Thanks, but alas, I'm not free to do this.

I've finished re-editing the document, and have made all the changes.
So far I've only seen these peculiar single-character errors in the hyphenation in pre-existing text, and I'm hopeful that it's a one-off that has to do with moving the document from 10.6 to 10.11.

I'll do a separate test with a brand new document and paste in some text and arrange it so that 'challenging' or a similar word needs breaking, and see what it does.

If it works as you describe, then I'll try doing the same thing within a copy of my original long document somewhere as a further test.

Maybe I'll never see it again. :-)

WF

withoutFeathers
Posts: 68
Joined: 2013-03-19 16:22:50

Re: Nisus/Apple breaking at non-syllables, off by 1 letter

Post by withoutFeathers » 2017-03-05 11:16:52

martin wrote:I'm not seeing this problem. I tried on OSX 10.11 with the settings you gave, in a small test document, and "challenging" is hyphenated correcting as challeng-ing.
This is very strange, because I'm on 10.11 and I've just tested both Nisus and TextEdit, and both have the errors in multiple words.
Whereas inDesign does it correctly. All on my 10.11 system.
See the attached screen shots.

I'm having a hard time imagining something that would cause Apple's engine to do this in my version of 10.11 (which is 10.11.6, on an iMac) and not yours, but apparently that's so.
Nisus Apple error in challenging and dancing hyphenation.png
Nisus Apple error in challenging and dancing hyphenation.png (63.16 KiB) Viewed 1355 times
Text Edit (El Capitan) error in dancing and bouncing hyphenation.png
Text Edit (El Capitan) error in dancing and bouncing hyphenation.png (31.18 KiB) Viewed 1355 times
InDesign correct hyphenation of challenging and dancing.png
InDesign correct hyphenation of challenging and dancing.png (79.12 KiB) Viewed 1353 times

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martin
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Re: Nisus/Apple breaking at non-syllables, off by 1 letter

Post by martin » 2017-03-06 16:39:01

withoutFeathers wrote:I'm having a hard time imagining something that would cause Apple's engine to do this in my version of 10.11 (which is 10.11.6, on an iMac) and not yours, but apparently that's so.
Strange, but apparently true. I just tried again using "dancing" and other words as you did, but do not see the problem. I suspect InDesign has its own hyphenation engine, so that's why it's not affected.

You could try installing additional English hyphenation dictionaries, which Nisus Writer can detect. I found some extra English hyphenation dictionaries on a LibreOffice web page. You'll want the file called hyph_en_US.dic or hyph_en_GB.dic. Then follow the instructions in our FAQ topic to make them available in your Nisus Writer preferences. That should allow you to sidestep whatever hyphenation problem you're seeing with Apple's engine.

withoutFeathers
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Joined: 2013-03-19 16:22:50

Re: Nisus/Apple breaking at non-syllables, off by 1 letter

Post by withoutFeathers » 2017-03-06 20:15:49

martin wrote: You could try installing additional English hyphenation dictionaries, which Nisus Writer can detect. I found some extra English hyphenation dictionaries on a LibreOffice web page. You'll want the file called hyph_en_US.dic or hyph_en_GB.dic. Then follow the instructions in our FAQ topic to make them available in your Nisus Writer preferences. That should allow you to sidestep whatever hyphenation problem you're seeing with Apple's engine.
Thank you. I have them installed now and they show up in the Nisus 'Languages' Preferences, in the 'Hyphenation' Drop-down.

Question: Am I supposed to choose one of them (ie, the GB one or the US one) in the Hyphenation drop-down, so I'm no longer choosing 'Apple/System Hyphenation' ? I'm guessing this is so.

WF

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