Selectg tab to separate index entry from its reference

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sowers
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Selectg tab to separate index entry from its reference

Post by sowers » 2017-12-27 12:37:51

(1) I have read everything I can find in the Nisus users guide (is there a way to purchase a hard copy?) and online searches and cannot find out how to select "tab" to separate the index entry from its reference. I can do that manually, but surely there is an automatic way for the index to configure that action. What I have so far is an index with the topic smashed together with the page number. If I manually insert a tab between the topic and the page reference, I get the "topic_______page#" which is the way I am trying to get the index to appear. Please help. Thank you.

(2) I also am having trouble getting the endnotes to appear BEFORE the index. I found this advice to another user:
"In the Style Sheet, for Endnotes apply 'End of Section' instead of 'End of Document'.
Then just before the Bibliography insert a section break."

BUT when I change from at "end of document" to "end of section," I get endnotes all through the document at the end of numerous sections, vs. one complete list of endnotes at the after the last section break before the Index. More help needed, please. Thank you!

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phspaelti
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Re: Selectg tab to separate index entry from its reference

Post by phspaelti » 2017-12-29 20:49:00

sowers wrote:(1) I have read everything I can find in the Nisus users guide (is there a way to purchase a hard copy?) and online searches and cannot find out how to select "tab" to separate the index entry from its reference. I can do that manually, but surely there is an automatic way for the index to configure that action. What I have so far is an index with the topic smashed together with the page number. If I manually insert a tab between the topic and the page reference, I get the "topic_______page#" which is the way I am trying to get the index to appear. Please help. Thank you.
Index generally uses a tab to separate the entry from the page number. Isn't that what you get? You can set these things in the Index Style.
Tools > Index > Configure Index Styles
(I'm not sure why you are unable to find this in the Nisus Help).
sowers wrote:(2) I also am having trouble getting the endnotes to appear BEFORE the index. I found this advice to another user:
"In the Style Sheet, for Endnotes apply 'End of Section' instead of 'End of Document'.
Then just before the Bibliography insert a section break."

BUT when I change from at "end of document" to "end of section," I get endnotes all through the document at the end of numerous sections, vs. one complete list of endnotes at the after the last section break before the Index. More help needed, please. Thank you!
Here you may be running up against a limitation of Nisus. I believe you can only have either section end notes or documents end notes, and in the latter case, you probably can't put anything after the notes. If you are already using sections for other purposes, the trick described will not work for the end notes.
philip

sowers
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Re: Selectg tab to separate index entry from its reference

Post by sowers » 2017-12-30 15:54:23

Thanks for your reply, Phillip.
(1) I was able to get the index formatting ("Topic.........pge#") correct by torturing the data...but several days later when I was proofing the index, I was unable to make a couple of corrections/changes. In frustration, since "rebuild index" did not produce the corrected entries, I deleted the entire index and selected Tools => Index => Insert Index. To my bewilderment, out of several hundred Nisus index entries previously visible in the index, only eleven appeared. Now I am wondering, since this was a MSWord document that I opened in Nisus and am trying to completely convert (as I would like to do to all my books), am I experiencing some sort of internal conflict? While I am waiting for a response, I will go back and re-enter the index entries. I appreciate your help. Thank you!

(2) RE: endnotes after index...it seems strange, since "endnotes then index" is seemingly the correct format, that it is programmed in reverse order. Bummer! Any possibility that Nisus will offer an upgrade with that change (or option) in the future? Thank you.

Þorvarður
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Re: Selectg tab to separate index entry from its reference

Post by Þorvarður » 2017-12-30 18:30:30

sowers wrote:RE: endnotes after index...it seems strange, since "endnotes then index" is seemingly the correct format, that it is programmed in reverse order. Bummer!
Why do you need all endnotes to be at the end of the document (before the index)? If you are writing a book, it's more user-friendly to end each chapter with a Section Break and place the endnotes at the end of each section (chapter.) Footnotes are even better from the reader's point of view.

If the document is a dissertation, or something of that sort, and you absolutely must have the endnotes at the end, followed by an index, you could achieve what you want, if you keep the index in a separate file: then export both Nisus files as PDFs, and lastly, merge them into one PDF with Preview before you print. —Preview allows you to easily combine multiple PDFs per drag and drop in Thumbnails view.
Last edited by Þorvarður on 2017-12-31 21:25:37, edited 1 time in total.

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Hamid
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Re: Selectg tab to separate index entry from its reference

Post by Hamid » 2017-12-31 01:54:17

sowers wrote:[...]In frustration, since "rebuild index" did not produce the corrected entries, I deleted the entire index and selected Tools => Index => Insert Index. To my bewilderment, out of several hundred Nisus index entries previously visible in the index, only eleven appeared.
When you apply the Tools => Index => Insert Index command, only the index of the Active Index Style will be inserted. Here, in this example, there is an index of proper names and a separate index of toponyms; Proper Names style is active, so only the index of proper names will be inserted.
Active index style.jpg
Active index style.jpg (42.45 KiB) Viewed 2007 times
It may be that the eleven entries that appeared were made with a different index style which was active when the Tools => Index => Insert Index command was applied.

sowers
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Re: Selectg tab to separate index entry from its reference

Post by sowers » 2017-12-31 11:40:51

Thanks, Þorvarður. The work-around you proposed sounds viable. I have never created a file index apart from its file. Can you point me in the direction as to where I can find out how to do that and still maintain accurate page reference numbers?



Thanks, Hamid. I rebuilt the index and the eleven stand-alone entries disappeared. I tried accessing the two different Index options I have for that document (“Default” and “FOTL_Index”) and they both return the same entries.

And now I am perplexed again: The page numbers for index entries in the endnotes, are not the correct page numbers. Does Nisus Writer Pro2 automatically reformat MSWord documents’ endnotes?...or are endnotes like the TOC and INDEX, they appear, but they have to be linked again in NWP2? If they have to be re-linked, is there a relatively simple way to do that?...or does one need to make another copy of the current document and cut and paste the endnotes into the new NWP2 document at the appropriate place?
(I am afraid to ask, but do bookmarks and cross-reference entries need to be re-linked, as well?)

And I have another question: I appear to have an index entry that is longer than the column width. Instead of wrapping, the entry appears as “First Word Of Index Entry-tab symbol-Page#” The tab symbol is overlaying the First Word and the Page#. Is there a way to get the Index entry to wrap?

sowers
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Re: Selectg tab to separate index entry from its reference

Post by sowers » 2017-12-31 12:20:51

It appears that index entries cannot be any longer than 38 characters (Times New Roman) and spaces irrespective of the column width for the Index section. Thirty-eight characters/spaces do wrap in the index, but when I try to include one more space/character, the Indexing palette defaults to excluding everything but the first word for that entry.

Þorvarður
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Re: Selectg tab to separate index entry from its reference

Post by Þorvarður » 2018-01-01 01:19:54

To make the endnotes appear BEFORE the index, you could do this:

1. Place the insertion point somewhere in the endnotes
2. Hit Command + a. Hit Command + a once again. This should select all your endnotes.
3. Hit Command + c to copy them
4. Now place the insertion point after the bibliography, add returns or a page break if necessary, and then paste the endnotes.
5. Enter a page break after the last index entry in order to separate the index from the endnotes at the end of the document.

For printing and exporting as a PDF, the endnotes are now BEFORE the index. The drawback is, they are no more directly linked to the endnote references above. However, the genuine endnotes at the end of the document are still directly linked to the text. It's up to you whether you color them white to make them invisible. They are on a separate page anyway which never gets printed.
sowers wrote:I have never created a file index apart from its file. Can you point me in the direction […] ?
The other solution I mentioned earlier:

1. Select and cut out the index
2. Paste it into another Nisus document and save it
3. Export both files as PDF
4. Open both PDFs
5. Activate Thumbnails from the View menu (in Preview) in both PDFs
6. Drag the index thumbnail from the index PDF and drop it onto the last thumbnail in the other PDF. The index should now appear as the LAST part in the PDF.

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phspaelti
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Re: Selectg tab to separate index entry from its reference

Post by phspaelti » 2018-01-03 16:28:21

A bit belatedly, my 2¢ on this question.

1. Endnotes are so primitive, that there really is no need to use the built-in feature. You could just write them by hand anywhere in the document you like. The numbers could be handled by macro, if desired.

2. Þorvarður's first method could be made a bit more convenient, if instead of cutting and pasting you use a cross reference. Just select all the endnotes and create a cross-reference at the location where you want the endnotes to appear. Of course this means that your actual document will contain the endnotes twice, but at print-out time you can just limit the print-out to the pages up to the second set of endnotes. In a pdf you can just delete the extra endnotes.

3. Another alternative, if your only aiming for paper output, is to put section breaks before and after the index, and then restart the page numbering for the relevant sections. In a pdf output you can probably also move the pages around to get the correct order.

PS: Þorvarður suggests doing things like cutting and pasting the index. I would avoid doing that at all costs. If you are going to cut and paste anything make sure it is the notes, not the index. Indexes are such complex, delicate things I just wouldn't tamper with them.
Last edited by phspaelti on 2018-01-03 16:51:19, edited 1 time in total.
philip

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phspaelti
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Re: Selectg tab to separate index entry from its reference

Post by phspaelti » 2018-01-03 16:37:36

sowers wrote:It appears that index entries cannot be any longer than 38 characters
I find no such limit.
philip

Þorvarður
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Re: Selectg tab to separate index entry from its reference

Post by Þorvarður » 2018-01-04 05:21:36

Þorvarður's first method could be made a bit more convenient […] Of course this means that your actual document will contain the endnotes twice
If you end up with the endnotes twice, why is this then more convenient?
Just select all the endnotes and create a cross-reference at the location where you want the endnotes to appear.
Since this is impossible, I'm sure you must have had something else in mind that is not mentioned in the description above. Could you give a step-by-step instruction?

And how should the Cross-reference pane look like?
1.jpg
1.jpg (75.62 KiB) Viewed 1922 times
2.jpg
2.jpg (65.29 KiB) Viewed 1922 times
As you can see, the only thing that can be referenced is the note number, not the endnote text(s), and that means, having to select each and every endnote, one after the other, in order to be able to reference all the endnote numbers. I guess you must have had something else in mind than this, but I'm clueless…

Þorvarður
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Re: Selectg tab to separate index entry from its reference

Post by Þorvarður » 2018-01-04 05:32:18

phspaelti wrote:Endnotes are so primitive, that there really is no need to use the built-in feature. You could just write them by hand anywhere in the document you like. The numbers could be handled by macro, if desired.
I would very much like to have such a macro. One would need to be able to jump easily back and forth between the endnote reference and the doc reference.

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phspaelti
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Re: Selectg tab to separate index entry from its reference

Post by phspaelti » 2018-01-04 09:02:24

You are of course right, Þorvarður, the endnote text cannot be cross-referenced in one go. Bummer. But you can still just copy them all at once.
Þorvarður wrote:If you end up with the endnotes twice, why is this then more convenient?
Actually there is nothing convenient about endnotes by definition. The only convenient solution is to not have them.
Þorvarður wrote:
phspaelti wrote:Endnotes are so primitive, that there really is no need to use the built-in feature. You could just write them by hand anywhere in the document you like. The numbers could be handled by macro, if desired.
I would very much like to have such a macro. One would need to be able to jump easily back and forth between the endnote reference and the doc reference.
Why would you want to jump back and forth? The whole point of endnotes is to put them where you never have to look at them again.
philip

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phspaelti
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Re: Selectg tab to separate index entry from its reference

Post by phspaelti » 2018-01-04 15:35:55

Þorvarður wrote:I would very much like to have such a macro. One would need to be able to jump easily back and forth between the endnote reference and the doc reference.
Just to be a little more cooperative here :)

One way to arrange endnotes is to attach a list style to the notes themselves. That way they will be numbered in sequence. Then for the references in the text you can cross-reference the auto-number. The auto-number itself then will function as (one-way) jump from reference to note.

More generally, if you have applied a character style "Note Reference" to the references and a "Note Reference in Note" style to the references, you can use Find to jump from one to the other. The macro has the following steps:
  1. Copy the (string) of the current note reference or note reference in note
  2. Apply the opposite character style to the string
  3. Find the note or reference using the styled string as find string
A more elaborate macro might be made to correctly insert new notes in the appropriate place. (See the macro that I wrote to create notes in tables.)
HTH
philip

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phspaelti
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Re: Selectg tab to separate index entry from its reference

Post by phspaelti » 2018-01-04 19:31:59

Here's a bare bones macro that jumps from a note to the reference. The macro looks for the nearest preceding note reference.

Code: Select all

# Jump from Note to Text Note Reference
# Retrieve the necessary style info
$doc = Document.active
$noteRefStyle = $doc.styleWithName 'Note Reference'
$noteRefNoteStyle = $doc.styleWithName 'Note Reference in Note'

# Locate the nearest preceding note ref in the note (if available)
$num = Cast to String '\d+'
Push Target Text $num
$noteRefNoteStyle.apply
Pop Target Text
if Find $num, 'Eub-W'

# Jump to the corresponding note ref in the text
$jump = Read Selection
$jump = Cast to String $jump
Push Target Text $jump
$noteRefStyle.apply
Pop Target Text
Find $jump, 'uw'

else
# If no reference was found
exit 'macro not applicable in this context'
end
philip

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