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Disappointed NO FOOTNOTES in beta 2 
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Joined: 2003-05-24 04:36:19
Posts: 3
:cry: I'm rather disappointed that beta 2 doesn't have a footnote feature. I was hoping that it would. As it is, I cannot use NisusWriter Express. Academic writing often requires referencing of source material and I can't keep waiting (another month, perhaps) for this key feature to be implemented.


2003-05-24 04:44:36
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Joined: 2003-04-25 00:06:29
Posts: 14
Location: NYC
Kapmandu wrote:
:cry: I'm rather disappointed that beta 2 doesn't have a footnote feature. I was hoping that it would. As it is, I cannot use NisusWriter Express. Academic writing often requires referencing of source material and I can't keep waiting (another month, perhaps) for this key feature to be implemented.


It's worse then that -- the only difference between beta 3 and beta 4 (as refered to in the info for the program) is that the expiration date seems to be the only thing that has changed. Still has the same crashing bugs (which have been reported). The only thing that has changed is that they added some macros. Do they want to compete with BBEdit or with MS Word?


2003-05-24 05:58:23
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Joined: 2003-04-27 17:44:08
Posts: 17
I must confess that I too am becoming frustrated, and I REALLY want an OS X version of Nisus Writer. The only improvement I've noticed in Beta 2 is that it's less sluggish than Beta 1. It still doesn't remember half of my key command changes, it still insists that page numbers in a header must be left justified, and it's still unusable for academic writing without footnotes.

I'd happily do without fancy find-and-replace features to have some footnotes and perhaps even formatting commands that stick.

While the initial argument for rebuilding it in Cocoa from the ground up sounded good, each beta release really makes me wish they'd just ported 6.5 to Carbon (which would have given us a fully functional word processor and freed us from the hell that is the Classic layer). That way I wouldn't be ready to dust off my old typewriter, and I'd be much happier testing a semi-functional Beta in my spare time.


2003-05-24 19:11:28
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Joined: 2003-05-10 12:36:37
Posts: 6
Hi...

From looking at the release notes on the download page, it seems clear that the beta versions of NW Express will be just exactly that. In other words, these are the beta version of NWE version 1, and what we'll see, as with any normal beta process, is the clean up / fix up / stabilize of the program as we now see it. New features will be part of the next *version*, which itself may have betas...

Or so it looks to me.

tom


2003-05-24 21:13:15
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Joined: 2003-04-26 05:51:07
Posts: 18
I'm also really disappointed. Beta 1 was a shock to me - after waiting for so long, there were still no footnotes, no user-defined styles, no rulers,etc.; but I thought that those would appear gradually in the next betas and be part of the final product. If Nisus Writer Express is just this set of features, it's not going to go very far - every other word processor does footnotes and style sheets at least. I'm as loyal a Nisus fan as there ever was, but I can't see spending $35 to use a word processor that lacks those minimal functions. I love the GREP and non-contiguous selection, but I can do those in BBEdit.


2003-05-25 10:50:51
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Joined: 2003-05-24 04:36:19
Posts: 3
I'm glad to see I'm not the only one who is a little confused about Nisus Writer Express. I apoplogise if I have misread NWE's feature set but I'd like to see an unambiguous official statement concerning whether or not the 1.0 release will include footnotes, user-defined styles, etc. I'm more than happy to test NWE as a text editor but I cannot use it as a dedicated word processor without these very basic wordsmithing tools.


2003-05-25 11:14:14
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Joined: 2003-05-26 02:00:10
Posts: 22
Kapmandu wrote:
:cry: I'm rather disappointed that beta 2 doesn't have a footnote feature. I was hoping that it would. As it is, I cannot use NisusWriter Express. Academic writing often requires referencing of source material and I can't keep waiting (another month, perhaps) for this key feature to be implemented.


Kapmandu: a beta version is in almost all cases "feature complete." That means that no significant new features will be added to the application before the final release (NWX 1.0).
If you take a look at the list of changes in this beta you'd notice that they are all bug fixes, and contains no significant changes even in the functioning of features. This is as it should be.
In other words, do not expect footnotes and the like with NWX 1.0. Perhaps with NWX 2.0.


2003-05-26 02:12:24
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Joined: 2003-04-27 17:44:08
Posts: 17
If you take a look at the list of changes in this beta you'd notice that they are all bug fixes, and contains no significant changes even in the functioning of features. This is as it should be.
In other words, do not expect footnotes and the like with NWX 1.0. Perhaps with NWX 2.0.[/quote]


Sadly, you're probably right. However, if any of the leadership of Nisus software reads this board, I must say that if this IS true, it is an absolute betrayal of loyal Nisoids. Expecting us to wait for a year or more for what looks to be - at best - a text editor is shameless.

I repeat: Carbonize 6.5 and let us have a functional, working OS X version of Nisus, then develop the Cocoa version to your hearts' content.


2003-05-26 19:36:07
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Joined: 2003-05-19 17:33:34
Posts: 19
I would guess that if it's physically possible, that many of the staff at Nisus would agree with you, seeing Nisus starting talking about the rewrite in Oct of 2000 a month after the first public beta of os x was released. However, I don't know enough about the carbon api's to know if that was possible. Remember that NW 5 was re-designed as an OpenDoc container way back when. I don't know how well if would have converted, all that opendoc code is still in there. May it wouldn't have mattered, I just don't know. I did read though on the Nisus mailing list that it looks like the full release of NW X is still a year off.


2003-05-27 10:19:37
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Joined: 2003-04-27 17:44:08
Posts: 17
A year!!?? Yeesh! I don't know for sure whether the OpenDoc code would present a problem or not .... but they could have started on the problem when OS X was announced and now we'd all be wordsmithing with smiles on our faces. In the early days of OS X a few bugs would have been accepted ... and by now they'd probably all have been corrected.

What are the folks at Nisus counting on? Loyalty and support are not infinite. Sure, I like the brand of car I drive, but the brand name isn't enough if brakes are missing and the roof hasn't been installed yet.


2003-05-27 18:59:19
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Joined: 2002-11-26 11:40:35
Posts: 481
Location: San Diego, CA
Hi:

Nisus Writer Express 1.0 is basically feature complete right now. We are adding a few little features here and there when they seem to fit in with our normal bug fixing process but we are mostly focused on fixing bugs and improving some performance issues before we do a final release.

Make no mistake about it, we have been listening to all the features you have been requesting from us. Footnotes, styles, and tables are all high on our list. But these things take time to add. Our focus has been on building a solid foundation; a good product with a well thought-out user experience and the mechanics under the hood that will allow us to add tons of great new features for many years to come. Now that we are getting that into place, we are going to be adding all the additional features you are requesting.

Our hope is that Nisus Writer Express as it stands is a product that will be useful for some writing tasks and will offer a glimpse of where we are headed with this product. But we are not standing still. If it does not currently fit your needs, then you don't have to buy it now. All we ask is that you keep your eye on us. Eventually we will offer the features you want. When we do, I think you will find our product to be a compelling solution at a great price.

-Charles

(opinions expressed are my own, they do not reflect the official views of Nisus Software.)


2003-05-27 20:21:17
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Joined: 2003-04-27 05:49:15
Posts: 8
I'll buy Nisus express when it is released. I'm keeping my eyes on Nisus, visiting here everyday.
But, I rather like Microsoft style. I remember early version of Word (windows version) was very poor. But how is it now? One of the best product!

So, show us something even it is not completed yet. Let users test.
What is so different than past Okito composer? Some additional style? macro? I want to know which features are being added now. Don't say 'many features'.

Please show us your roadmap.


2003-05-28 00:38:52
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Joined: 2003-05-24 04:36:19
Posts: 3
"Nisus Writer Express 1.0 is basically feature complete right now."

Thanks Charles for clarifying the feature set status of Nisus Writer Express 1.0. I appreciate your desire to establish a solid foundation upon which additional features will be added. I'm a little disappointed though that I cannot use NWE at this point in time for my academic writing. That disappointment springs mainly from the fact that NWE looks so damn gorgeous. I'll take your advice and keep my eye on development. Hopefully, by year's end I'll be able to use NWE or whatever it will be called on a full time basis. :?


2003-05-28 07:43:16
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Joined: 2002-11-26 11:40:35
Posts: 481
Location: San Diego, CA
Q wrote:
I'll buy Nisus express when it is released. I'm keeping my eyes on Nisus, visiting here everyday.
But, I rather like Microsoft style. I remember early version of Word (windows version) was very poor. But how is it now? One of the best product!

So, show us something even it is not completed yet. Let users test.
What is so different than past Okito composer? Some additional style? macro? I want to know which features are being added now. Don't say 'many features'.

Please show us your roadmap.


Here are just a few of the things we have added to Nisus Writer since Okito:

    * Perl and AppleScript Macro support
    * Assignable menu keys
    * Autosave, including automatic saving of documents into the document manager so you don't have to interupt your work by trying to figure our where to save your document and what to name it.
    * Multiple kinds of tabs, and keyboard controlled tabs. (Try clicking on a tab stop or an indent marker and then using the arrow keys.)
    * Ruler editing dialogs. (Try double clicking on a tab marker.)
    * Multiple, editable clipboards.
    * An enhanced results-based find and replace, including PowerFind and PowerFind Pro (that uses GREP).
    * Microsoft Word format support.
    * Graphics can be saved directly into RTF
    * Automatic page and section numbering
    * Palette Groups and the palette library.


Not to mention many bug fixes and optimizations we have made. Of course, I can't talk in too much detail about what happens next with Nisus Writer because our plans might change as we continue to listen to the feedback we get from customers. What I can tell you is that with the release of 1.0, we are going to work on adding features like footnotes and right to left support. We will also be further refining the features we do have, improving file compatibility, and adding support for integrating with other applications.

When you buy Nisus Writer Express, we want to establish ongoing value to you by adding the features you request and then providing them on a regular basis. That is why every purchase of Express includes a year of free updates.

-Charles


2003-05-28 09:45:10
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Joined: 2002-11-26 11:40:35
Posts: 481
Location: San Diego, CA
Kapmandu wrote:
"Nisus Writer Express 1.0 is basically feature complete right now."

Thanks Charles for clarifying the feature set status of Nisus Writer Express 1.0. I appreciate your desire to establish a solid foundation upon which additional features will be added. I'm a little disappointed though that I cannot use NWE at this point in time for my academic writing. That disappointment springs mainly from the fact that NWE looks so damn gorgeous. I'll take your advice and keep my eye on development. Hopefully, by year's end I'll be able to use NWE or whatever it will be called on a full time basis. :?


I know it doesn't have everything you need for academic writing. I have the same problem when I write papers for school. (So it's obviously important for me as well! :wink: ) Anyway, Express is wonderful for those times when you need to dash off something fast and don't want to spend anytime screwing with the application. Keep using it when you can and send us feedback!

Cheers,
-Charles


2003-05-28 10:01:21
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