Styles not listed in

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Kino
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Re: Styles not listed in

Post by Kino »

Eric Weir wrote:One last question: It's off topic, but why is word wrap not working on this thread
Because of the width (1167 pixels) of an image posted here, I guess.
Depends on your display monitor's horizontal resolution and the width of your browser windows, though.
Word wrap does work if the width of the latter is bigger, e.g. 1600 pixels.
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Eric Weir
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Re: Styles not listed in

Post by Eric Weir »

Because of the width (1167 pixels) of an image posted here, I guess.
Ah! That explains it. Thanks, Kino
Eric Weir
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martin
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Re: Styles not listed in

Post by martin »

Eric Weir wrote:
Even though the footnote style is not shown in the Styles palette, that doesn't mean it doesn't exist, or isn't applied.
I knew that it existed because it was listed among the styles when Style Sheet View was selected. But since it was not listed in the palette. Is there a reason why it's not listed in the Styles palette. It is a style. :wink:
It is a matter of style, yes :)

The thinking is, one hardly ever needs to apply a note style, so why clutter up the palette? Normally you insert a footnote/endnote, and let NWP apply the appropriate style for you. The only time the style needs to change is when you convert footnotes to endnotes (or vice versa) and in that case NWP handles the style change as well. Put another way, if you have a footnote NWP will ensure the "Footnote" style is applied; the same goes for endnotes and the "Endnote" style. It's all automatic.
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Eric Weir
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Re: Styles not listed in

Post by Eric Weir »

The thinking is, one hardly ever needs to apply a note style, so why clutter up the palette? Normally you insert a footnote/endnote, and let NWP apply the appropriate style for you.
Well, I have no idea how many others find themselves in this situation, or how often, but when you're working with a footnoted document exported from another application, and the footnote formatting is inconsistent, for the reasons you've given, you might, as I did, think of using the footnote style to correct the formatting of the footnotes.

As for "cluttering up" the palette, my simple style set has sixteen styles, only thirteen appear in the styles palette. Some of them, like "footnote reference," "note reference," and "note reference in note," were originally, and to a degree still are, obscure to me. I'm just coming to understand what they do. I sense there's some redundancy among them and with other styles. If those are not considered "clutter," it seems a little unfair to "footnote" and "endnote," whose function is not in the least obscure.

Finally, I wonder if whether the footnote and endnote styles are included in the styles palette couldn't be left up to the user, as it is with what to include in the style sheet.

Just my two cents, of course. I appreciate your responding to my question.

Sincerely,
Eric Weir
Decatur, GA USA
Groucho
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Re: Styles not listed in

Post by Groucho »

Eric said…
Some of them, like "footnote reference," "note reference," and "note reference in note," were originally, and to a degree still are, obscure to me.
The footnote reference is the tiny, superscript number or symbol that appears in the text and reminds the reader that there is a note linked to the text. The note reference in note is the same number or symbol at the beginning of a note. Note reference I don’t know. I guess it’s the same as footnote reference but can refer to endnotes too. Maybe Martin can cast a light on this. Also, see from page 33 and 110 in the manual.
Notice: you can change their attributes when in style sheet view. E.g., you can make a footnote reference bold, or green, or bigger, to better spot it.

Cheers, Henry.
Kino
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Re: Styles not listed in

Post by Kino »

Eric, do you have both Note Reference and Footnote Reference? There is no problem but that is a bit strange.

Open a new document, switch to Style Sheet view, and look at Footnote or Endnote under Note Styles. There, you will find Doc Reference Style and Note Reference Style. The former defines note references in the main body and are usually superscript numbers such as ¹, ², ³… The latter defines note references preceding note text in the notes area, for which some people use normal — i.e. non-superscript — numbers 1, 2, 3… and other people prefer superscript numbers ¹, ², ³… Different from the automatically applied Footnote and Endnote styles, you can choose any character style for Doc Reference Style and Note Reference Style.
FootnoteStyle.png
FootnoteStyle.png (38.39 KiB) Viewed 10450 times
In the earliest versions of NWP, both Doc Reference Style and Note Reference Style in Footnote had Footnote Reference by default — i.e. if you use the automatically generated Nisus New File.dot without modification — and those in Endnote had Endnote Reference by default, as you see in the style sheet of Nisus Macro Reference.zrtf (Help:Macro Language Reference).

In the latest NWP 1.4.1, Doc Reference Style has Note Reference in both Footnote and Endnote, and Note Reference Style has Note Reference in Note in both of them, like in the style sheet of Release Notes.zrtf (Help:Release Notes).

So presumably you, Eric, copied and pasted Footnote Reference from another document intentionally or accidentally while you were configuring Nisus New File.dot. And you, Henry, do not have Note Reference because you are a long time NWP user and continuing to use Nisus New File.dot customized years ago without modifying it a lot as far as note related styles are concerned, I guess.

There were some intermediate stages but I don’t remember well.

Anyway, the essential is…

• If you want footnote references to look differently from endnote references, you need different character styles for each of them, e.g. Footnote Reference and Endnote Reference.

• If you want footnote references and endnote references to look the same, using the same character style — e.g. Note Reference — for both of them would make your life simpler.

• The same way of thinking applies to footnote references and endnote references in the notes area.

As Henry explained, what I mean by “look differently” and “look the same” is not the difference or the sameless of Number Format — e.g. 1, 2, 3…, a, b, c…, i, ii, iii… — for which an option is available in Footnote and Endnote, but superscript vs non-superscript, different or same colour(s), font(s), font size(s), etc. Also Default Note Text refers to the text between a note reference and note text in the notes area, ‘. ’ (a full stop followed by a no-break space) in NWP 1.4.1’s built-in Nisus New File.dot. It will be added automatically when you insert a footnote or an endnote manually.

EDIT: Added a paragraph beginning with “So presumably…”
EDIT: Improved my English a bit or made it worse. Added the last paragraph and a screen shot.
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Eric Weir
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Re: Styles not listed in

Post by Eric Weir »

Thanks, Henry and Kino. With your help I may be getting this sorted out. I got rid of the "note reference" style altogether and set my "footnote" and "endnote" styles up so that both use "footnote reference" as the "doc reference" style and "note reference in note" as the "note reference" style.

I was not even aware of the "doc reference" and "note reference" styles before. I guess because, while they exist, and are referenced in the "footnote" and "endnote" styles, they do not appear in either styles lists, i.e., in style sheet view or the styles palette.

It took me a while, but your references to the manual and your explanations were very helpful. My style set is now even simpler, and I think I have at least a clue what things do and how they're relate to each other.

Thanks very much.

Sincerely,
Eric Weir
Decatur, GA USA
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martin
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Re: Styles not listed in

Post by martin »

Eric Weir wrote:Some of them, like "footnote reference," "note reference," and "note reference in note," were originally, and to a degree still are, obscure to me. I'm just coming to understand what they do. I sense there's some redundancy among them and with other styles. If those are not considered "clutter," it seems a little unfair to "footnote" and "endnote," whose function is not in the least obscure.
Your rationale here is sound, but in my mind that just means we should also omit the "Note Reference", etc styles from the palette. Probably that's not the change you meant to produce ;) But like the Footnote/Endnote styles, the special note reference styles are applied automatically as needed (Henry and Kino have explained them quite thoroughly so I'll spare you another explanation). It's quite rare that anyone would want to apply such a character style manually. The only reason I can think of is to construct some sort of fake/lookalike note.
Finally, I wonder if whether the footnote and endnote styles are included in the styles palette couldn't be left up to the user, as it is with what to include in the style sheet.
That's probably the best for everyone. I can file it as a feature request.
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Eric Weir
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Re: Styles not listed in

Post by Eric Weir »

martin wrote:Your rationale here is sound, but in my mind that just means we should also omit the "Note Reference", etc styles from the palette.
Actually, now that, with Henry and Kino's help, I'm coming to understand the relationship between the various note styles and how they work together I won't complain.
Finally, I wonder if whether the footnote and endnote styles are included in the styles palette couldn't be left up to the user, as it is with what to include in the style sheet.
That's probably the best for everyone. I can file it as a feature request.
Thanks. I imagine users needing to reformat notes in documents exported from another application would find it convenient.

Again, thanks for the effort put into educating me.

Sincerely,
Eric Weir
Decatur, GA USA
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